For most of my active flying career, Navy hemorrhaged pilots to the airlines as soon as their obligated service was complete. Accession of new aviation officers was structured with relatively low retention rates in mind, even after the payback period from winging was increased from five years to eight. Guys couldn’t wait to get out and start earning that huge paycheck, and all the ready room chat among the instructors at the training squadron was about FedEx or United interviews, and getting to 1500 hours for that Airline Transport Rating. People looked at you funny if you said you were in for the long haul.
These days, not so much:
Retention among aviation officers has been dramatically higher than for other Navy communities during the past decade. The Navy has about 650 more aviation officers than manpower experts say are needed. On the other hand, the Navy has authorized slots for hundreds of officers in the submarine and surface communities but not enough officers in uniform to fill those jobs, personnel data show.
“Clearly we are managing a larger inventory than the other communities,” said Capt. Mike White, director of aviation officer distribution at Navy Personnel Command.
The result is that up to 80 percent of undesignated billets, including Pentagon staff jobs or other slots that do not require specific skills, are held by aviation officers, White said.
One key reason for the high retention: Job opportunities and pay levels in the airline industry have fallen significantly.
I started noting a strange phenomenon a couple of years back, as pilots who had resigned their active commissions but remained in the reserves starting shuffling back from the airlines to active duty on service waivers. This allowed them to take military leaves of absence from their companies even as they built seniority within the airline, earn a pretty decent pay check and spend most nights at home with momma and the kids.
Plus, with all respect to those holding line jobs, it’s hard to believe that pushing big metal through the national air space structure only to land at Chicago O’Hare in dog squeeze weather has quite the same fun factor as flying a Super Hornet at Fallon.
I used to wonder whether such policies were a good idea, since the reserves allowed a man to have his cake and eat it too, inevitably harming retention among the active force. My concerns were apparently misplaced, although Navy has a past history of over-corrections when it comes to both hiring and firing.
A few years back, I overheard some senior officers moaning about the parlous state of aviation retention rates, and one of them said, “I guess the best thing we can do is pray for a recession.”
Hey, presto!
Recently promoted Brig. Gen. H.L. McMaster will be his Plans officer. That’s a hell of move there.
Damn, I’m getting old..wrong thread… (slap!)
I was never attracted to the Airlines. Always wanted to be a military pilot and make a career of it. Airline flying is not much different than driving for Greyhound, just higher and faster.
While those senior ossifers got their wish for a recession, this one is likely to cut into the bone of the military. Also, the aftermath can have its own problems as the economy recovers and the temptations return with a vengeance.
Been the case for a number of years. NPC folks are happy to have more senior aviators to plug into non-flying billets. Downside is reduced promotion opportunity to O-4 thru O-6 (10-20% less opportunity than SWOs and bubbleheads).
I hear, though, that the airlines will be looking to hire more soon as there is a bubble in the current crop of pilots reaching mandatory retirement.
You write, ” it’s hard to believe that pushing big metal through the national air space structure only to land at Chicago O’Hare in dog squeeze weather has quite the same fun factor as flying a Super Hornet at Fallon.”
And you’re right on.
BUT back in the olden days (here we go again, sez you) when I was a heavy equipment operator for “…the OOONLY way to fly!”, it was actually fun to fly the two holers through the mountains of Montana, Colorado, Wyoming, etc. One learned to appreciate energy maneuverability, idle thrust, speed brakes and prayer. Especially at night, during winter. A typical flight was about forty minutes and they weren’t shooting at me all that much.
Retention even worse in the Air Farce, guys. Spend 6-8 years tooling around in a BUFF or a KC, then head over to the airlines.
“dog squeeze weather.” Never heard that particular expression before, but I guess I can figure out what it means.
I think I mentioned somewhere before, that an acquaintance of mine just graduated form Annapolis and is waiting to report to Pennsacola. She’s been told not to hold her breath (or the military version of it) and is working at The Academy right now, getting ready for the Plebe Class or 2014. Her boyfriend, who also wanted Aviation, reports soon to Charleston for Nuc training before Subs. Another friend will be a SWO and I believe will be meeting her ship in Pearl Harbor on it’s way to the Gulf.
Blame Easyjet.
Perhaps some Naval Aviators who do get on with the airlines can thank the wife and I. We certainly helped their profit margin recently. I like to tell people that we spent 10 days in Japan, 8 days in Bali, 3 days in Singapore and two days on airplanes. United’s extra 5 inches in Economy Plus is a life saver for someone 6’2” on those 12 hour flights. OBtW, was able to find Guinness on tap everywhere but on the airplanes. Only 15SD for a pint in Singapore.
Wadidyagoandsaythatfor? Now you’ll have Lex galavantin’ all over the world looking for that perfect place to consume cheap Guinness and he won’t be here making new posts so we can make our brilliant comments and pick at each other.
Do you feel ashamed yet?
They probably had Guinness in 1st Class. Why are you so cheap?
QM, at the rate i’m building up miles, I just might be in 1st class next time and I’ll check out the Guinness. I wouldn’t exactly call 15 SD cheap. That equates to roughly $10.64 US. Lex can probably get it as cheap in Sandy Eggo.
Mebbe these guys are hiring. Pretty high pay, once you include the intangibles.
I am formally a Captain with one of the Big Six airlines and am a former naval aviator and this is my opinion to those who are looking at coming into that side of aviation.
Our typical working month includes biddng (battling) over a schedule that sucks ass to begin with, trying to find the longest days/hours, which more than likely will put you working eight days days with more highspeeds than you care to ever deal with, possibly a day or two off after that (of which you will be stuck out in the middle of nowhere hoping to catch that one standby seat home). Then, if you are lucky enough to get to a major hub and not be stuck waiting for hours to get home, you finally get home, and unpack just to get a shower, and see that crew scheduling has called you to come back in since your within your required rest hours from the FAA, so you repack your stuff and head right back out to the airport to do it all over again.
The people you deal with are crude, disrespectful and have no respect for the position you have of being responsible of their safety. If you are lucky and get one of these safety conscience passengers that decides on your way to taxiing over to the RWY he wants his laptop out of his overhead bin, are turning around, delaying all of the other passengers, and depending on how much this pax wants to push things, we may or may not get over the the infamous ORD to squeeze though the shit weather or be stuck in a 2 hr holding pattern.
Overall they are two different worlds, but for the ones who think the a typical ATP just “drives a greyhound” and has the easy life, think again. This life will work you hard and put you away wet. Its a rough life for people with families since you are never home, and all the “free flight benefits” and BS they give you isn’t worth it in most cases, because the second you want to fly somewhere your in line with 30 other people trying to get on the oversold flight. The pay is great for mainline, but after you spend money for oarking fees, airport food and crash pads for the hub you are stationed at, it doesnt come out to a lot.
JW, I’m not an ATP, and am not in the business of equating Greyhound with being an Airline Pilot. Airline flying just doesn’t float my boat. It’s too much like driving a bus. It just has wings, and Greyhound drivers get more respect.
I hate going anywhere on an airliner. While most people are OK, it just takes a few morons to make it bad for everyone else. The lines really should throw those people off and let them make their own way via some other common carrier. If they take the Bus, they’ll probably learn their lesson and think ahead about how they act.
I won’t even talk about TSA. This is a family blog and such language should not be used around ladies.
Flew out to SLC yesterday next to a United Captain flying RJ’s (Heading to Flightsafety for an annual check). After he stowed his flashcards I asked him if he liked flying.
The answer was pretty much no. The only time he gets to “fly” is when he’s cleared for the visual approach. The pay isn’t allowing him to retire his $40k school debt and the current business climate of the airlines is a constant drain on morale. A lot of time away from family too. I was a little suprized that he had no inclination to fly light aircraft (i.e.aerobatics etc) for fun.
Lex,
wasn’t the carrier mishap fatality rate back in the 80s and before around 23%. I’d expect that to motivate better than 1 in 4 guys to move to safer digs…
Overview of some USN mishap statistics here: http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l261/SpazSinbad/IntroNATOPSeffectAccidentsGraphUSN1.jpg