File this one under, “the Internet is forever”.
2000, UK Independent: Snowfalls are now just a thing of the past -
Global warming, the heating of the atmosphere by increased amounts of industrial gases, is now accepted as a reality by the international community. Average temperatures in Britain were nearly 0.6°C higher in the Nineties than in 1960-90, and it is estimated that they will increase by 0.2C every decade over the coming century. Eight of the 10 hottest years on record occurred in the Nineties.
However, the warming is so far manifesting itself more in winters which are less cold than in much hotter summers. According to Dr David Viner, a senior research scientist at the climatic research unit (CRU) of the University of East Anglia,within a few years winter snowfall will become “a very rare and exciting event”.
“Children just aren’t going to know what snow is,” he said.
I bet he wished he hadn’t.
2010, UK Daily Mail: Coldest December since records began as temperatures plummet to minus 10C bringing travel chaos across Britain
Swathes of Britain skidded to a halt today as the big freeze returned – grounding flights, closing rail links and leaving traffic at a standstill.
And tonight the nation was braced for another 10in of snow and yet more sub-zero temperatures – with no let-up in the bitterly cold weather for at least a month, forecasters have warned.
The Arctic conditions are set to last through the Christmas and New Year bank holidays and beyond and as temperatures plummeted to -10c (14f) the Met Office said this December was ‘almost certain’ to become the coldest since records began in 1910.
But things are probably different in the summertime Southern Hemisphere, right?
Bitter summer freeze bites eastern states as summer gives way to snow and cold
Thongs and board shorts gave way to beanies and scarves yesterday as summer gave way to a wintry blast of snow and icy temperatures in the country’s southeast.
While the bitter freeze in Europe continues, Victoria and NSW have had a cold snap of their own, with off-season ski slopes transformed into winter wonderlands.
About 30cm of snow fell at Perisher in NSW yesterday, while Victoria’s Mount Hotham received a 10cm dusting on Sunday.
I know, I know: Weather ≠ Climate.
Exactly – all this cold weather is clear evidence of Anthropogenic Global
coolingwarmingclimate changeClimate Disruption. Exactly as predicted.“I know, I know: Weather ≠ Climate.”
Which is what the junk science global warming nuts will say. Until it is convenient for them to say hottest summer on record and such.
I’m thinking the cold weax has slowed their reptilian blood a bit. Seems there are no where to be found, screaming “GLOBAL WARMING!” right now…and I think they are even realizing “CLIMATE CHANGE!” is like “Duh!” to all of the rest of us non-chicken littles….
Colder temperatures is a sign that temperatures are rising. Only by accepting that fact can you understand the brilliance of the solution, which is purely scientific, as well. Give America’s money to Third World countries, most of whom are implacable enemies with brutally oppressive governments.
That’ll do the trick.
Yeah…..aren’t these the same Joeys that were screaming and yelling that there was an ice age coming only a decade or so ago? Oh, wait…..perhaps Al Gore couldn’t make money off global cooling for some reason, so they HAD to change it to warming. LOL
Actually, ZSS, that was back in the early 1970s. I believe Time Magazine even featured a cover article on the question…
Gents
Actually nothing more than thermodynamics which all of us remember if we didn’t sleep thru it. The rise in temps has actually decreased polar ice caps letting loose fresh water in the northern climes. Fresh don’t retain near the heat as does salty. Plus fresh is less dense, rides atop the salty, further increasing heat transfer. Which increases evap and lifts moisture into the atmosphere which causes that snowy stuff. One of them Catch-22 thingies – global warming causes deepening cold fronts and more severe winter weather. Whodathot?
However, I remain skeptical that mankind is the primary, if not sole source, of warming. If we keep decreasing use of hydrocarbons (they are NOT fossil fuels)and increase solar and wind and LNG use, we will never get to the doomsday scenarios of the Al Gore-istas.
A knuckle-dragging Southern Goober like you can actually SPELL thermodynamics, let alone understand it, G-man? Will wonders never cease!
Don’t throw stones, VX; our Southern Gentleman host clued this Yankee engineer in on the fourth law of thermodynamics.
What rise in temps? The climategate temps?
…but to your larger point. A-yuh. Concur. Temp change happens. System responds/compensates.
Whether it’s icecaps or not I dunno. Looks like some seriously suspect measurement methodologies relating to polar ice.
You left out heavy and continuous snowfall increases the albedo so less solar radiation is absorbed, lowering the average black body temperature of the planet. Ice melt cools the local sea temperature and destabilizes oceanic circulation.
I’d quote the equations but they are too complex and we have too little reliable data over too short a time period to postulate a reliable model with genuine predictive value.
Sigma W defines C over long periods if the seasonal data is sufficiently reliable and repetitive, i.e., predictive.
Since, as best we can tell from sparse records and inferences, from geology, and botany, and animal fossil records, we are in an interglacial period and nowhere near the max warm of the last one, further investigation is warranted.
Not passing laws that say the gas critical to half the interspecies respiratory-photosynthesis cycle is a toxic gas, despite the fact that if that cycle is interrupted every living thing dies.
By the way, what is the formula for deriving the average temperature of the earth? Or the optimum temperature?
My fear? “the Internet is forever” until the UN gets ahold of it. Then its “UNforever” as far as access to dissent. Then we can live out an enduring theme of science fiction – what people know when only newspeak is allowed…
Climategate?
What Climategate?
And we continue to waste tax money to fund charletons who live on government grants to prove or disprove what is currently in vogue. Please excues my not spell checking.
I’m still referring to this as “weather” for awhile yet as the jury’s not yet spoken. It doubt if it has anything to do with us, and our CO2 emitting devices. It does seem though that the term “climate change” has been hijacked by those that would steal the fruits of our labors. And I don’t feel threatened by the prospect of the english dominating us or our (north american’s) ice hockey expertise. We’ve had enough snow so the topsoil doesn’t blow away in the winter’s winds, and it’s cold enough to freeze the outdoors ice rinks. Skiing is good. Maybe someday the english will have a Winter Olympics although their tears will likely ruin the ski runs.
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2010/12/20/a-dalton-minimum-repeat-is-shaping-up/
You all will probably be happy that a ‘Global Warming Meanie’ and global warming denier – Sensenbrenner – has just been appointed as Vice Chairman of the House Science Committee.
Now we can have some of that Republican science for a change, instead of that Democrat science.
["Meanie" not my word... comes from Malkin's blog.]
Science is neither, but I fear scientists, in the interest of gaining grant money, have come to pre-determine experimental outcomes, so they meet the pre-conditions to get the grants.
As far as “Global Warming,” please, from your extensive education as a climatologist, explain how the massive snow storms here and in Europe are caused by “warming?”
The very evidence screams “you have it wrong!” While any one day doesn’t prove or disprove the concept, an inescapable fact is the planet heats up and it cools down….has long before I owned an SUV, will do it after we are gone.
Nice to play your divider card, as usual. Remind me: Just how does that help us get out of the left/right discussions when we actually could be discussing real science?
One winter does not a longer trend change. Ask your favorite melting glacier.
NASA has reported that the meteorological year of 2010, which ended on Nov. 30, was the hottest on record. Fact.
well, we can agree that NASA has declared it a fact……
weather or not it is a reproducible observation is another question.
there is a lot of good reading to be had at http://wattsupwiththat.com/ including discussion of NASA’s proclamation.
Um, no. Assertion of fact by way of an appeal to authority.
About 4 hours drive from me are the fossilized remains of several mammoths. About an hour from them is Sue, the fossilized remains of the most intact T-Rex ever found.
Now cogitate upon that for a bit.
At one point in time, here in South Dakota, there were 20′ tall carnivorous lizards running around eating 10-ton herbivorous lizards, and evidently enough plant life to support herds of 10-ton lizards roaming about. Shortly thereafter (in geological terms) there were furry mastadons wandering the snowpack and eating whatever vegetation still remained. There were also, apparently, humans eating the mastadons. Weren’t any lizards left in the ice age 11000 years ago.
So NASA can say whatever it wants, when lizards can meander about South Dakota in December I will recognize the possibility that it is the hottest year on record.
Until then, my grandmother knows more about the history of temperatures in this country than NASA does. Her records go back to 1910 or so.
– Max
Don’t mean a ‘thang’.
Dinosour remains have been found on every continent, including Antartica.
link
The earth tilts in strange ways sometimes.
Looks like there have been some pretty sharp increases in global temp before:
http://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/PageMill_Images/image160.gif
So…what industry was going on that caused that huge spike about 2500 years ago? Not to mention about 12k ybp. Looks like it could just be Momma Nature making a correction for the sharp decline into the Little Ice Age.
Tr4anslation: You all are stupid people, who can’t understand Flterman the world renowned climatologist…oh, wait! He’s just a veteran of the armed forces! Maybe he stayed at Holiday Inn on a cold and wintery night!
Flit: I ask again: What are your credentials to say “Fact?”
If you quote Al Gore, that doesn’t make it a fact, only that you are brainwashed.
I don’t disagree that man has mad an impact on the warming. I disagree that is it a significant factor in the current conditions. So do many others. That has become the core of the dissension. Tha AGW is real and the AGW is BS. Simple observation of the World’s climate history, the entire record, not a cherry picked century or two, saw I’m more likely to be right than you.
But then you’d have to believe the first step of the “scientific method” is to observe and not to write up something alarmist that will get a grant to prove your alarmist theory.
Until that’s agreed upon, then all we will do is exchange links of minor symptoms of the conditions we observe any given day or year.
BTW, thanks for pointing out that the fact that it’s yet another very cold winter, and early this year, really means nothing at all. Merely highlights my contention that the AGW alarmists aren’t interested in facts/observations, just their arrogantly superiority. If you were in for the TQM/TQL years, you’d be back at your graph paper and hand held calculator, reworking your data as more was available to observe.
Odd, there’s no reply link on Flit or Joe’s post above. So, I’ll follow here.
Flit, dino bones in the antartic? Doesn’t that sort of make my point for me? Given the climate changes before, which we have an iron-clad proof of in the fossil record (no herbivore walked from Brazil to the South Pole without vegetation, which being cellular cannot grow at below-freezing temps, ergo the route to the South Pole was above freezing at some point).
Isn’t it a bit of a stretch to think that the planet that once supported dinosaurs in the antarctic and wolly mammoths in southern california may have cyclical weather patterns that our own pithy CO2 or methane contributions are but a trifle? Now I realize we’re unable to look at Sue’s bones and calculate to the 10th of a percent the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere at the time of her death, but do we throw out all known data prior to 1950 in favor of the most recent where we do have instrumentation? Seems kind of like ignoring all history prior to the invention of the camera because books, tapestries, excavations and the like aren’t trustworthy enough to tell a true tale.
And we’re betting a lot of our welfare on the accuracy of our conclusions drawn from under a single human lifetime worth of data.
Thank you, I’ll have none of it.
– Max
Given how long we’ve had satellite telemetry from thermocouples from orbit, more like… Data. Sparse data at that.
Yeah, it’s bloody freezing for Dec here (Melbourne).
I applied for a water restriction exemption to lay a new lawn and instead it’s been pissing with rain.
So despite the fact that the vast majority of scientists (you know the guys you guys worship when they come up with new gadgest for the Navy) worldwide conclude (save those in the pocket of EXXON) that global climate change (some places get hotter, some colder) have concluded that we are in deep kimchee cause of our pouring tons of crap (particles of crap) into the atmosphere, you Don’t believe these scientists cause……
So Man can’t impact the climate, so millions of tons of crap pumped into the atmosphere have done nothing?
If you believe in science for one thing (defense appropriations) then you must believe the same folk who tell us that the data says we are crapping in our own bed…
or you risk being called LUDDITES
just out of curiosity, do you have even a vague idea what the volume of the earth’s atmosphere is?
now compare the total volume to the amount of various gases man is emitting.
if you really believe we are having that kind of effect, the word you are looking for is hubris.
Do you ever look at the sunrise or sun set and SEE THE level of pollution? You know the red and yellow haze? Do you think that layer of pollution is NOT man made?
Do you recall the CFC debate? The scientists showed us it was EATING the Ozone layer…. do you remember that?
this is not about left or right this is about Science and not belief systems
No sir the word I am looking for is actually a phrase, the
“scientific method”
I’m still gonna drive my F-250 over hippies. So there..pltfffft.
Careful, they tend to fishtail a lot on the ice. Messes up aiming the business end.
i will believe that the whole climate fuss and bother is a crisis when the people busy telling me its a crisis start acting like its a crisis themselves.
and also when the ones saying so aren’t in a position to get rich from it.
i’m not cynical, i’m experienced.
You know what counts, batting average. Not moving the fence or rules. Here’s a guy with a history of predicting what actually happens, who says we may be in for a mini ice age. Experience says put your money on the proven track record, THe one who looks not at just the fluid bet the energy source that heats it,
Don’t worry, when the AGW legions wake up and brace for the cold, they will manage their marketing campaign to somehow portray them as the ones who led the way to know this….and now need grant money to figure out how to warm the planet up…like recommendations to buy more SUVs, and it’s a twofer, as they will help the economy to boot!
Along with the question of what would be the ideal average temperature, goes the question of what would be better, a world 5 degrees warmer or one 5 degrees cooler? history tells us that warmer is better.
Oh, and the flippant comment about buying more SUV’s ain’t gonna do squat to raise the earths temp if the thinking is that adding more CO2 to the atmosphere will do anything other than make plants happier, and I doubt that our ability to contribute 0.05% of the atmospheres CO2 can even do that.
You want to warm the planet up. Stop the Chinese from replacing their dirty cola fired powerplants with the newer clean coal ones. Soot is the answer, change the albedo to absorb more of the suns energy.
Ummmm… Isn’t the sun supposed to start its transformation into a Red Giant in another 1.1 billion years? I seem to recall the prediction is 10% brighter, Mercury is engulfed in the solar corona, the loss of mass results in our orbit expanding by about 40% and we’re about to get a lot warmer. Then the thought is that the thing starts burning helium, which reverses a lot of these effects but doesn’t do us much good as we cool down and our solar system dies.
So, ya, while we have a bit of time to address these problems I’m reasonably confident that exchanging that 60W incandescent light bulb for a 40-watt CFC or trading in the New Yorker for a Prius isn’t going to make one iota of difference. That’s not to say one should soil one’s own bed in pollution, but compared to Old Sol we’re insignificant.
– Max
Max;
Nope..in about 5B years…but…you know…it’s man who is probably causing that, too. If we didn’t demand the sun “put out” so much for us, it would have more fuel conserved…
The evidence does suggest that climate does change and continents do drift, and it wasn’t that long ago that anyone proffering such a view was regarded as a crackpot.
I think what we’re seeing here in Oz is part of a repetitive cycle, fluctuating over 30 years or so. 30 years ago saw huge rainfall and floods along the eastern seaboard – I know, I’m old enough to remember my hometown being cut off by floods. 30 years before that saw the worst floods in living memory throughout the Hunter Valley. 30 years before that saw a milder increase before dropping back into drought. 30 years before that saw a huge storm pick up a house sized rock off the sea floor off Sydney and deposit it on Ben Buckler. People look at the thing nowadays and assume it has been there forever.
I think that gets at the heart of it. Weather seems to cycle and fluctuate on scales slightly too large for the human mind to encompass, so every extreme of weather appears unique to a human observer. I notice no records appear to have been set this season for coldest this, or wettest that, and so even our record keeping agrees there’s nothing too unusual about it all.