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London BurningBy lex, on August 9th, 2011
101 comments to London Burning |
Targets of Opportunityblog advertising is good for you Credo"Sign on, young man, and sail with me. The stature of our homeland is no more than the measure of ourselves. Our job is to keep her free. Our will is to keep the torch of freedom burning for all. To this solemn purpose we call on the young, the brave, the strong, and the free. Heed my call, Come to the sea. Come Sail with me." -- John Paul Jones "Pardon him, Theodotus; he is a barbarian, and thinks that the customs of his tribe and island are the laws of nature" --George Bernard Shaw, "Caesar and Cleopatra" "And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music."--Friedrich Nietzsche "A kind Providence has placed in our breasts a hatred of the unjust and cruel, in order that we may preserve ourselves from cruelty and injustice. They who bear cruelty, are accomplices in it. The pretended gentleness which excludes that charitable rancour, produces an indifference which is half an approbation. They never will love where they ought to love, who do not hate where they ought to hate."--Edmund Burke “You say that it is your custom to burn widows. Very well. We also have a custom: when men burn a woman alive, we tie a rope around their necks and we hang them. Build your funeral pyre; beside it, my carpenters will build a gallows. You may follow your custom. And then we will follow ours.”--General Sir Charles Napier "Μολὼν λαβέ" -- Leonidas "Blogito Ergo Sum" -- Neptunus Lex Amazon AssociateFor the Effort!Winnar! Subscribe CategoriesPagesTagsacademy
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It seems that Twitter is a big facilitator in the activity. Can they not shut it down for awhile?
Worked so well in Egypt.
How about just shutting down some cell towers?
From what I’ve been reading, Twitter is less to blame in this case than the Blackberry messaging system, which enables mass contact list mail-outs and is encrypted. Twitter is easily monitored by the authorities, Blackberry group SMS not so much.
And some 35% of the British “yutes” apparently prefer the RIM product for just that reason.
Funny. I go to a peaceful English Defence League rally and there are about four cops for every marcher, two platoons of cavalry, two circling helos and a hundred or more video and still cameras.
Meanwhile, burning and looting mobs get “riot police” who stand off blocks away, and what footage of them in action that’s made it on the netz pretty much shows them on the short end of most encounters.
The looters haven’t started in on the burgs closest to me, but they will in a day or two if the existing looters aren’t dropped in the streets. A green light is being given to all the punks in the country, a majority of which are imported, that looting and pillaging and arson will only get their photos taken (if they were smart they would systematically take out the cameras, but that’s too much to ask). When they are lined up in the dozens and hundreds and matched to photos, they will be released because the existing jails are full.
I hope that you and your family, and property, stay safe. Isn’t Hog Day also in the London area and a Police Officer? I hope he is safe as well.
Thanks for your concern, it’s got my boy a bit worried although he won’t admit it. Bit of a buzz tonight, local city was told that the rioters comms had been intercepted and trouble was coming to my local city (I’m outside, not much risk at all), so stores were locking up when wife went shopping. Trouble reportedly already underway in Birmingham and Manchester to the west, just as I predicted. Hogday is north of me, or so he says below, and isn’t seeing much in the way of fireworks, either.
Daryle: I’m retired, still fit and relatively young (under 60!) Safe and well. I’m touched by your concern. I live 280 miles from London, but this evil is being replicated in cities across the country as copycat thugs gang together and take a chance/have a go. Quote from a local p.o.s on my local radio as I type this: “Reporter: `Why are you doing this (to a looter). `Reply: ` Cos I can get away wiv it man. I ain’t bothered. If I’m caught, this is my 1st offence, so what happens if I’m caught? Nothing`. I have literally listened to this from the streets of a northern city, as I type this at 0813 my time. It beggars belief to most good people, but these feral scum are the bread and butter customers of my former colleagues on a daily basis. Every town has them. All they need is the opportunity, coupled with no fear of being caught and/or no fear of what will happen if they are.
A reminder of how fragile and thin the crust of civilisation is. Drop me a line if you wish – my blog link is enabled on this comment, with my email link therein.
Not to hog all the comments, but… I thought wife was shopping for dinner, asked daughter if son was upstairs showering. “No, Mom said the riots were coming to XXX and she ran and grabbed him because he needs shoes for school.”
I hope she ran off to buy them before the looters come, but I’m not so sure.
That sucks, Zane! Keep us posted….
I tried to imply that she might have gone looting herself, but I failed. Nope, just shopping, and they’re all home fine.
Some idiot said yesterday that they “don’t do water cannons”; that they rule with reason and discourse.
Which I’m sure the business owners in Hockney appreciate as a deterrent, in particular the family of the House of Reeves; the store that was owned by the same family since 1867 and was burned to the ground by the rioters.
Rubber bullets – how the once-mighty have fallen.
It’s called policing with consent. Only problem is they’re trying to ignore the fact that the majority have already given their verbal consent (in every poll, forum, phone-in, street-side survey, etc) for the authorities to end this now, with all means at their disposal.
Also of note there is no National Guard-like local govt contol of regional reserve forces, but then neither is there a Posse Comitatus equivalent, so the full military (regular and reservists) can be brought in on national govt request (all doctrine and legal niceties sorted out during military aid to the civil powers in Northern Ireland). This has been done previously on the mainland as strike cover for firefighters and prison staff but not for civil disorder policing as no politician will want to be the first to invoke that in modern times.
In my humble estimation, Korean shopkeepers on rooftops with real bullets would work better………..
Group of Turks and Kurds (yes working together!!) saw off a crowd of looters in their neighbourhood. No guns (obviously) but given the shops and restaurants I’d bet there was a goodly selection of large butchers knifes near to hand.
See? Unity is more than just a dream.
Wstr: Heard the Turks on the radio this morning. I absolutely rated them for what they said. Its people like that I would have been be proud to stand shoulder to shoulder with as a police officer.
If ever there were a time for “a whiff of grapeshot…”
+1
Indeed!
Started reading this last week. Got here this morning. Seemed appropriate.
+1
Good book. Lots o’ lessons.
+ 1 more!
London is the place I was born and grew up. I love the place, though I haven’t lived there since 1975. I joined the police there. I first served in a real bad suburb (nearly got knifed on my first night shift – just a crazy druggy) and also worked slap bang in the middle amongst the bright lights, great buildings and palaces. I think it is one of the greatest cities in the world. My last home there was a police flat (appartment/condo to you guys) on the edge of Brixton. In 1975 there were about 40 robberies a week in my `hood. This ranged from a simple bag snatch to a gun or knife threat followed by the theft (legal def of `robbery` in UK = a theft preceded by the threat or use of force in order to steal). I used to carry my truncheon off duty to go to the chinese takeaway – would have preferred an ACP but hey we don’t do that over here. Just before the Brixton riots of 1981 the robbery figures had more than doubled and the Met went into action. The intense roustings broke the dam and then all hell broke loose and they were told they got it all wrong. We’ve had these riots since, in Birmingham, Liverpool, Bradford lots of our big cities with the big city problems of immigrants, black ghettos, no-go areas etc all of which are `denied` by politicians. I was a tac firearms officer and we were the ones who would be deployed to use baton rounds, but we never were, the authority never came – baton rounds can only be authorised by the chief of police/chief constable/commissioner PERSONALLY. The use of these sub-lethal munitions is not devolved to a tactical level until that authority is given. Strangely enough, our armed response officers can use their lethal barelled weapons at their own discretion if the situation, in THEIR judgment, warrants it (thats very nice of the bosses, don’t you think?). So why do y`all think that is? Street level armed officer can draw the 9 milly from the holster and use it if the situation, as he perceives it requires a live one, but a less lethal option has to get authority from the very top. WTF? Well the F is political. The police in Northern Ireland have, along with the British Army, were using baton rounds since 1969, but not us on the mainland UK. QED? In the Toxteth riots (Liverpool) over 200 officers were injured in one nights violence, yet in Belfast, where similar violence took place on a far more regular basis, you might get 2 or 3 RUC officers hurt in a riot. As for the causes….I’m pausing for breath, a beer (Speckled Hen mmmm) and then I’m going back to my Patrick O’ Brian book before nodding off – off tacks and sheets. Incidentally, I live 280 miles north of London in beautiful North Yorkshire (at the moment) and the only disorder I experienced recently was last night – when I realised there was no Speckled Hen in the refridgerator. I’ll be back if you want more. Ask away, don’t hold back. And what do I think of the last 3 days and nights in my country, an ungodly shame. I am utterly ashamed, angry and after than little outburt, speechless. Godnight guys, its bedtime in Yorkshire and I just realised I didn’t even paragraph this comment – too late now
Which of the Patrick O’Brian books are you reading?
SteveC: Just finished HMS Surprise – for the 2nd time. Off on the Mauritious Command next. As for the rioters, in my past days of public order policing, I was always happy to use the Nelson tactics – “go straight at `em”
Raise your hand who just Googled “speckled hen”?
Guilty as charged, BTW. Now to find a distributor…
Which, having dutifully typed my birthday information into the Speckled Hen website, I was pleased to learn this:
Where indeed?
I wonder what `Pinky` would have done as his county town was being looted by opportunist thugs last night? (Lex, if you ever come to the UK, don’t use that nickname – trust me)
No offense to Hogday’s taste, perhaps he can’t find the best ales a little north of me, but Speckled Hen is a bit, mmm, mainstreamish. OTOH, it can be found in the frig, which all the wonderful stuff brewed in my own village and found in our free houses isn’t.
Zane, see my reply to Lex, and PS we’re moving to East Anglia in 2 months.
Guilty also, Lex….never heard of it, but I now have a second beer to try to find stateside (along with Victoria Bitter).
IMHO (in my humble opinion) Victoria Bitter is better than no bitter at all, but tasted a little pedestrian compared to others. I was a fan of Fosters Special Bitter (green can). Some Canadian friends had the Victoria.
That pint glass of Speckled Hen looks great. Proper size of beer glass also.
Not I… more a fan of Dogs’ Bollocks out of Wychwood Brewery (still got the t-shirt), but the ‘Hen is a nice quaff.
I weep for London; I’ve spent a total of about 3 months timer there in fits an spurts, mostly for business. First int’l trip I ever took my wife on was two weeks in London, and she’s been enchanted with England ever since.
I hope they can pull up before they tie the civilizational low altitude record again.
Detroit, Chicago, Philly… not far behind, so no need for we from the extreme west bank to be smug, neither.
Reasoning with barbarians, whither internal or external, usually ends up with your culture flat-lined.
I knew…being a recently converted beer snob. I prefer the Belgian Trappist stuff. Treat yourself to an extravagance one day; buy Westvleteren 8 on the gray market.
Lex and fellow drunks, my favorite brewery is in fact Adnams of Southwold. A brew I usually have in the `fridge is Adnams Broadside. As Zane said, Old Spekled is more mainstream these days as the Morland Brewery of Bury St. Edmunds was taken over by Greene King, a biggy, who did the usual asset stripping move. The `Hen` is a good standby, bit like saying, `well I’m out of 7.62mm but I still have my Heckler and Koch MP5,3 full mags and 2 boxes of 9 until the resup helo lands tomorrow – watch and shoot, watch and shoot`. Now, about the riots across English cities……
I’m way late to this party but I’m NOT among those who had to Google Speckled Hen. I’m also very fortunate in the fact I spent three years at Beautiful RAF Uxbridge, which is where and when (80 – 83) I learned what beer is all about. My favorite was Brakspear’s Bitter, second (and most commonly available, when I was in the city) was Courage’s Directors Bitter.
All the best to you, Hogday and Zane.
Buck,
Sort of a coincidence. I grew up in Uxbridge. One of the only three towns named Uxbridge in the world, to my knowledge. Except mine was in Massachusetts.
I wrote a paper in HS about the Battle of Britain, and was mentioning Keith Park’s 11 Group, based in Uxbridge. My teacher thought I was pulling her leg. Had to bring in the reference book to show her.
Not only am I raising my hand, but I’m readily admitting that until last week, I’ve read Hogday with an American accent. I have him in full on British accent in my brain now. (For some reason, until last week I’d not realized he was in Britain.)
Dear Bou`, (Ancient English Warrior Queen – statue of your namesake on her chariot, by Westminster Bridge opposite the Houses of Parliament), if you can get Adnams Broadside in your town you will be on my drive-in list when I ride across America later on. I’ll be the guy with the London accent on a Harley (and London isn’t Hugh Grant, oh dear me no,Miss Jones).
I will be checking on that! We have a pub in town and I’m going to stop by and see if they have it!
(Got the nickname from my father. He was writing our family history and was putting in the front of the book “To my daughter, Boudicca reincarnate” (in my youth I had a take no prisoners/revengeful personality… I’ve mellowed) and changed it since I married an Italian. He was afraid a member of my husband’s family would worry I’d want Celtic revenge in modern times and slay him in his sleep or something. I told him he gave them too much credit for knowing ANY history, let along Celtic history…)
The shrine: http://adnams.co.uk/
Bou, I recall from my readings in Celtic history (an obscure genre indeed) that the so called “valiant” Queen Boudicca poisioned herself rather than submit to the tender mercies of her Roman Overlords/betters…your thoughts. Best
PS, Please convey my sympathies to your husband.
Snake Eater- Well given what the Romans had done to her daughters once before, and given what the end result was REALLY going to be, I should hope I would have what it took to do what she did in the end.
My husband is a very patient man…
Funny – I do the same thing; read in the accent of the writer if their whereabouts are known. But for the British that’s a loaded proposition, being that accents change from street to street.
Hogday – please don’t be hating on Hugh. And for the great unwashed Americans among us – who would typify London?
That’s pretty much the Wisconsin State Statutes definition of robbery, as well.
It looks like the time is approaching where water cannons and Hong Kong Batons will be the only effective means of dealing with the problems, short of deadly force.
PS to my `awaiting moderation` rant, we can do whats called an `access overload` and bock mobile phone signals in certain areas – I’m sure you can over there, too. This requires a chief officer to authorise. It is usually only reserved for specific areas and major incidents where the police need all the airspace – like….er…last night. Sorry for the typo’s but I’m wearing the beer goggles.
PPS: A blogpal:
http://inspectorgadget.wordpress.com/
I read Gadget every day, and it depresses the hell out of me.
There was something bothering me about that Times article, but I couldn’t put my finger on it until I encountered this graf about halfway down page 2:
(my emphasis)
They’ve been very careful not to say that (cough) “southwest Asian” immigrant males have been rioting because they want their free handouts.
I’m shocked, shocked to hear that.
Drop a few (or better: quite a bit more than a few) of them in their tracks, particularly the obvious ringleaders and/or the most active bad-actors, and the problems will cease. What these jerks are doing is not acceptable nor harmless, nor should it be tolerated. I’ve never understood cops in such situations becoming mere observers, just as in L.A. during the Rodney King shopping holiday, I mean R.K. ‘protests’/'riots’, when the LAPD backed off or just stood there and watched as the looters and burners did their thing. Dumb, stupid, and wrong.
On a related note, baseball bat sales on Amazon UK are soaring.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/movers-and-shakers/sports/ref=zg_bsms_tab
You know, in the UK if you get pulled over by a cop and don’t have full bag of kit like catcher mitt, mask, all the stuff a team needs, and can’t demonstrate you are carrying it with you to a sporting event, he can arrest you. But yes, those little 17″ aluminum ones sold at the AAFES are nice.
I haven’t followed the London burning too closely. But I know anarchy when I see it. Not only is it criminal, it can easily spread to unimagined extremes, as it did in Europe at the turn of the 19th century. And “dropping a few in their tracks” can have just the opposite effect than intended, as it did so often in Europe prior to WWI.
While their Prime Minister was on an idyllic Italian holiday, the ordinary working class folk were settling in to a hard diet of austerity, rising taxes, and bitter social welfare cuts. What began as a protest for a police killing has exploded into anarchy. Cuts in education, scandals at the highest levels, closing doors of opportunity, and a realization that the economy won’t get better for years has left the young working class angry and adrift – always fertile ground for riots, anarchy, and even revolution. (That is by no means justification. Just an observation.)
However unlike anarchy of old, and simple indiscriminate looting and vandalism, these riots seem a bit organized, and growing, making them even more dangerous.
We in the US would do well to watch these events and how they are managed, for we have some similar circumstances as England, and we risk the same explosions of violence here.
PS: Old Speckled Hen was one of my all-time favorites last time I was in London. Great brew for whatever ‘ales’ ya!
Flit, you are smoking crack. This has nothing to do with class warfare, this is thuggery, pure and simple. It’s about thievery, taking what you didn’t earn because those who did are deprived of their rights to defend it or themselves.
Flit, I speak up for you a lot, but on this one you are on my wrong side.
Yes it is indeed thuggery and thievery. But it goes well beyond that and is much worse. It is mob rule and anarchy. While there is much looting, some stores are being burned without anything stolen. It is an irrational and unpredictable mob. That is a situation if left to grow and organize is far more dangerous than only looting.
So you’re saying it’s best to just start shooting them til they recover their rationality.
I agree.
No answer can be given if one be a full blown twit and liberal.
Use cannon on them. Grape shot. At longer distances, round shot. A charge with the bayonet does wonders in turning violent firebugs and thieves into little lambs.
And the shopkeepers and merchants will treasure the gouges long after they’ve replaced the glass and point to them as the folks at Pearl and Hickham do.
From 500 yards out, solid shot or bursting shell. From 500 to about 250, stands of grape. Under 250, canister. Under 50, double canister.
Of course, that would work best from a static position. For moving and clearing the streets, maybe Pike & Shotte
Zane. If you get the chance, use the BBC iPlayer and listen to Radio Leeds just after the 8am news (Wednesday) I intend to do so when they load it for replay and transcribe the interview with the teen looter. Just as you said to Flit.
We probably will see much the same thing in places like NY, LA, Chicago, Detroit, and such. The hand outs had to end sometime as there is only so much OPM to go around before you have to start getting oppressive to get more to continue the handouts.
The left is now bereft. They need more to keep bribing their dependents so they will keep voting for them. But, the productive population is starting to say “enough.”
Of course, those taxpayers are just hardhearted racists that don’t care a whit about the poor. Ain’t that so, Flit?
Hey Flit,
I know that facts rarely keep you from expressing your class warfare no matter the situation or behavior of the heroic proletariat.
Just the same, this is a good read. http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/katharinebirbalsingh/100099830/these-riots-were-about-race-why-ignore-the-fact/
“…But oddly, no one would say what colour Mark Duggan was. No one would say the unsayable, that the rioters were, I suspect on the whole, black. Then, finally, Toby Young’s Telegraph blog post on the riots was published. Is Toby Young the only journalist out there who will dare say that these riots are about race?
Still, one paper did carry a photo of Mr Duggan. When I saw the photo, it confirmed what I knew instinctively: black youths once again have set London alight.
Some of the black kids I used to teach will tell you that the riots are absolutely justified. A number of adults would agree with them. Everywhere I read that the protest was understandable because “people are very angry”.
I’d like to know what they’re angry about. Mark Duggan is dead. He was shot by the police in a shootout. Duggan was in a minicab and shots were fired from both the cab and the police elsewhere. A police officer was hurt in the incident and a bullet was found lodged in a police radio. Either Duggan was shooting at the police or the driver of the minicab was. Either Duggan was in the wrong place at the wrong time and his death is a terrible tragedy – he was caught in the crossfire – or he shot at the police and the police defended themselves. Whatever the explanation, the police did not kill this man in cold blood.”
URR, I concur with your drift here. From my sources (and now since last night, the media) I wasn’t expecting to hear that Duggan snapped off a shot and it appears that he didn’t. However, he was packing and a pistol was recovered. The round in the police radio was police and was either a stray that went beyond the planned LOI or an over penetration or it skipped off something solid. The facts, as they seem to be coming out, remains that the dead guy was carrying and from my own experience and training we didn’t have to wait until we were shot at in order to shoot to stop an atrocious crime. Of course, the brainless scum who are doing all this evil will see it as a case of `they didn’t give him a chance`. Of course rational beings like us will know the other side to that puerile argument. My own personal oath was always to finish my tour of duty in roughly the same condition as I started it. I was lucky that in many years of specialist firearms ops, I never had to fire a shot, but I had a weapon in my hands literally more times than I can ever hope to recall, without hypnosis;)
Listening to the Beeb on the way to work this morning, talking about “members of the Asian community” in Birmingham trying to protect their property from the looters. Now, I have no love for the “Asian community,” meaning Muslim Pakistanis, but it only highlights the racial component of this. Yes, there are plenty of chavs riding on their coattails, but this has been largely a black-on-everyone-else pattern. As for the “Asian community” defending their property, damn straight–if they bought it legally and the state won’t protect them (and it won’t), then more power to them in defending it. What’s unspoken, and has many of my MOD colleagues muttering under their breath, is that they have been completely deprived of the means and the right to defend, and know that they risk their very freedom if they swing a bat at a rioter trying to steal from them.
Well deprived of the confidence, Zane. The law has always allowed self defence, but always `in extremis` and providing it is reasonable use of force. The interpretation of this in the courts and elsewhere has been pretty pathetic. In 75 in south London, when black burglar gangs tooled up with knives etc were kicking their way in through front doors, `reasonable force` as interpreted by me in the light of such a threat, was my Savage Stevens pump action and a tube full of number 7. After my warning, I would aim to maim and then see what happened.
Zane – From AFGHN, you have our thoughts and prayers that this egredious stupidity will be brought to an end. Paris suffered throught this same kind of thuggery and vandalism a few years ago and it was caused by those who are not oppressed but by those who have no care for anyone but themselves. Greedy lazy vandals who think they can blend in with the crowd and get away with murder.
Vancouver fell prey to these feckless fools and it gave that city a black eye when they were vying for the Stanley Cup.
I have undying admiration for the British people but the criminals who do these things to a nation should be drawn & quartered. I have served side by side with the British Military and they are Brilliant.
JFK dealt with this issue in Sept. 1962 when he addressed the issue of civil rights and spoke about the mob mentality:
“This is as it should be, for our Nation is founded on the principle that observance of the law is the eternal safeguard of liberty and defiance of the law is the surest road to tyranny. The law which we obey includes the final rulings of the courts, as well as the enactments of our legislative bodies. Even among law-abiding men few laws are universally loved, but they are uniformly respected and not resisted.
Americans are free, in short, to disagree with the law but not to disobey it. For in a government of laws and not of men, no man, however prominent or powerful, and no mob however unruly or boisterous, is entitled to defy a court of law. If this country should ever reach the point where any man or group of men by force or threat of force could long defy the commands of our court and our Constitution, then no law would stand free from doubt, no judge would be sure of his writ, and no citizen would be safe from his neighbors.”
President John F. Kennedy – Sept. 30, 1962
Zane, you have our prayers for the safety of all of England. All our best to you good friend.
Hey SK1.(“I have served side by side with the British Military and they are Brilliant”). Thanks for that chum. I have family and friends out there. The former in the army and the latter contracting with MILINT. Like me, they rate you guys too. As for my England at the moment, makes me want to rejoin, rearm and restore, but they just couldn’t afford to pay me right now – even if I volunteered. No one fights harder than when they fight on their own soil for their own country’s freedom and what’s going on is all about that little F word.
SK1, it’s always an honor and a good time to serve with the British overseas, and I enjoyed my time with them in the box. Thanks for your prayers for England, but I’m only a guest here, Hogday speaks for the natives. The riots are bad, much worse than the press has let on, but they are hardly Afghanistan. Keep your own head down, and yay Bruins! Go Sox! And it looks like the Pats got an offensive line for Brady, so hooyah!
The obvious answer then is to drop them ALL in their tracks…
Read them the Riot Act, and then follow through like old times.
QM – This has little to do with race. Whenever there is an attempt to wean a group off of their entitlements whether reasonable and needed or not, strong reactions can always be anticipated.
Many here including Lex and I are entitled to tax funded retirement pay and healthcare for the rest of our lives. Do you not think we will fight to keep our entitlements? Do you not think we would be angry if we lost those benefits? I overpaid for my Social Security for many years. Do you not think I would be angry if I lost that entitlement? Fortunately we have more options than most. But as subsidies are lost along with jobs and hope for many who have no options, lose their home and become hungry, that creates a volatile situation.
Witness the WWI Bonus Army 43,000 strong who without jobs marched on Washington in 1932 to demand their entitlement bonus. In fact shots were fired and two veterans died.
Reducing entitlements without providing enough jobs and hopes for the future breeds social destabilization.
“QM – This has little to do with race.”
Seems there is some legit disagreement about that.
“…Yet, a friend of Duggan who gave her name as Niki, 53, said marchers had wanted “justice for the family” and “something had to be done”. She said some of them lay in the road to make their point. “They’re making their presence known because people are not happy. This guy was not violent. Yes, he was involved in things but he was not an aggressive person. He had never hurt anyone.”
I wonder what “involved in things” means? I also wonder whether the police officer who was hurt at the scene believes Mark Duggan never hurt anyone. “Something had to be done”? She makes it sound as if the police are killing black people every other weekend and finally someone decided to take a stand.”
Also, see above. It WAS and IS about race. And the white guilt justification of wanton violence as somehow being understandable. But we haven’t the guts to tell the truth on anything anymore.
Happen here? Nope. We have the Second Amendment. Until you lefties manage to take that away.
No, it’s not reducing entitlements, it’s creating a population dependent on them in the first place. And while there are certainly whites and “asians” involved, it’s predominantly a black-on-everyone else affair, and it takes a great deal of conscious effort to miss that.
URR – “Happen here? Nope. We have the Second Amendment. Until you lefties manage to take that away.”
I guess you have never seen a tank stopped by simple insurgent improvisations and molotov cocktails in countries where personal arms are illegal. While many seem to relish a future confrontation with the “Lefties”, no sane person should.
BTW, I’ll bet this Leftie has far more weaponry than you of many calibers, and I practice regularly ever since I was a kid.
But I hope my several thousand spam can sealed rounds end up piercing only paper targets. How about you?
Fliterman, what you say is true, however, I do believe this is a case of “more is better.” In fact, by that argument, shouldn’t I be able to purchase something to take out a tank? Or are you arguing for the breaking of firearms laws?
What I do truly fail to understand, is why you don’t fear this more than others. Grant you, as you said, are well armed (more so then me, I believe this is where one of the leftist disease shouts “Unfair” and demands redistribution. In the spirit of comradeship, please send me one?), but really, this is the end of the “New Way” that you so deeply believe in. We have finally run out of other people’s money and this underclass, which was bred by your ideological fellow travelers with these entitlements, is starting to rebel when you can no longer pay. You created this dependency, used it to control them, gain their votes for promises of bread and circuses, albeit in modern form, and now, that you see the coffers drained, you blame others for being responsible.
You blame others because the math doesn’t work the way you want. It doesn’t feel right, but the math never cares about your feelings, it just is.
It’s hard, as a member of the millennial generation, to accept the massive level of theft that has been put upon us by the boomer generation and worse what will be inflicted on our children. My best friend’s unborn son is heir to at least 47K of debt, likely to be made worse in the few months before he’s welcomed into the world. I used to think I had it bad.
Nights like these, I wish I had some of my elders taste in alcohol.
Pardon, by that I mean the distinguished gentlemen and ladies of this blog, who imbibe much better things than gin and tonic with a bit of key lime juice from a plastic cup.
Yeah, saw that and then the dismemberment of the dissident because there were more than tanks and attitude. You recall Peking? You recall Prague Spring? The utterly ruthless employment of tanks never failed against unarmed civilians. It’s the nature of tanks.
Flit: I hear what you say and see it from that perspective, I really do. But it doesn’t look like `oppression` when you see two black, white, or mixed race kids tottering down the street from a looted store’s stockroom, carrying a 42″ Samsung flatscreen TV, still in its box. This sh1t was going on in glorious Gloucester last night! Hardley a simmering pot of inner city tension. They certainly were’t shouting, “Help, Help, I’m being oppressed, see the violence inherent in the system”.
Flit,
Nope. Never have seen a tank stopped by a simple insurgent improvisation. Then again, I have never seen a mob of looters driving a tank, either. Come to my house, looters and thugs of any color or creed, and someone will be cleaning up your gray matter with a mop.
My collection is more than adequate, and I will hit what I aim at. I never want to take a life in such a circumstance, but those who choose to threaten mine, or those I love, or my home and belongings run that very risk.
As for our own government oppressing and depriving of civil rights, well, they make the ballot box for that, to a point.
“That, when any form of government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the right of the People to alter or abolish it, and to institute new government…”
An interesting poster.
http://www.battleswarmblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/London-Burning.jpg
Joe, this is what we’re up against. Note the comments of the `local magistrate`:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-14467882
Gotta get me one o’ them posters, Joe!!!
Ya know….since it seems that the Blackberry and other such devices have contributed significantly to the violence, maybe we need to ban them.
At the very least keep the out of the hands of children, register them, and limit them to a max of 10 messages.
Joe, doesn’t the Pres sleep with a Blackberry?
Unless he’s switched. I had a BB until 2 weeks ago. I thought it was a piece of crap.
nah, she has him too whipped to switch.
Oh..
Wait…
Nevermind.
re: old speckled hen
A fine beverage that I highly recommend – served in large quantities at the local British watering hole.
Classy good sir, classy.
You tell ‘em, Granny!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNmQBx2WyN0
Tell him….somebody
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuqeQaEatiI&feature=player_embedded#at=46
Someone needs to buy that lad a book of adjectives. And teach him to speak clearly.
Why? Chances are he wouldn’t be able to read the book.
Probably not.
Awe the poor oppressed youth of england, bored with living off the dole, feeling the disrespect of their betters, Just breaks my heart to think of all their suffering – I mean, have you seen how hard it it to break some of those shop windows? I’ve got a perfect place for them – Afghanistan. They can run wild in the streets, shoot up whatever they want, steal everything that’s not nailed down, have a great old time for a few hours until reality sets in…. That’s one time I’d be pulling for the taliband.
Now I’m walking over to the pub and having a pint of Harviestoun Bitter & Twisted, or maybe a Hopback Summer Lightning. A 20oz imperial pint. I might have 2
Summer Lightning! You Ba$%^&d
Firing on rioters and protesters . . . Isn’t that what they are doing in Syria?
no no you pathetic fool
Riot is not protest, it is riot.
Arson is not protest, it is arson.
Looting is not protest, it is theft.
Destruction of private property is not protest.
Assault and battery is not protest.
You seem to have trouble with simple concepts and definitions, Flit. Of course, that is a very common failing of the left, reliance on Minitrue for definitions.
I got a speckled chicken under my arm. Go ahead and shoot me.