Sound the bongos, summon the stilt puppets, bring forth the crudely lettered, incomprehensible signs. All regardless of the fact that Hope and Change® have come to town, they are back!
In This Thread, you must summon your admiration for Teh Awesome represented by the heaving throngs of aimless, inchoate, under-educated and ill-led who are railing against corporate greed while using the bathroom at the McDonald’s and organizing their spontaneous demonstrations across Verizon (“The Best Deal. The Best Network.”)
I’d like to help you out, but I am seriously busy at work.
Which, come to think about it, might mark a distinction with a difference between myself and the unbathed.
BECAUSE OF THE PATRIARCHY!!11!
Update: Portland Jim follows the money. It leads back to college loans that some unsuspecting parents are paying off so that their son could study “Struggle, Revolution, and the MST: Reflections on the Meaning of Resistance” at Bucknell.
Read the comments too.
I heard one young lady boast to an interviewer that she was “risking her scholarship to med school” by being here protesting “greed”. I do hope she has the “courage” to stick to her convictions all the way to the bitter end. It dramatically reduces the chance I’ll be on the business end of a scalpel in her hand. I’d much rather order a burger from her.
Ah the effects of Marijuana and liberal education…
Pot is no better and no worse than alcohol in terms of effects on society. In fact, I would consider the former advantageous in that very few stoners ever got into a fight and killed someone.
In either case, we are talking about a substance which you can control, or you become controlled.
If you want me to defend the progressive education system, on the other hand; I got nuthin’.
Some are comparing these idiots as the “Tea Party in reverse” on some of the boards I visit. For the life of me, I can’t see any comparison to a thought process that produces the call for a return to responsible government and one that would have us descend into anarchy and chaos. But then I’m just a poor dumb sailor man.
Well, maybe this is like the Professional Protestors’ RAG or something? They already know the neo-fascistrobotautomatonteabaggerslavesofcorporateamerika will elect a Republican in the next presidential election, and they need to get all their qualification blocks checked prior to inauguration in 2013.
By the way, follow the money and take a look at who are the primary “donors” to the over-arching groups organizing this “grass-roots” effort. Yep, the usual suspects. (Tides, Foundation, Soros, et. al.)
Which leads me to wonder this: If Dear Leader is not re-elected next year, would the difference in the popular vote between 2008 and 2012 for Him mean that we suddenly had voters who shifted from enlightened to racist scum? How could that be so? Just asking.
What idiots. I heard one girl said “We need to be more equal.” Equal? Equal? We will with the way things are going, equally miserable.
I’ve tried for so long to figure out what drives these people, seeing as I’ve dated a few liberal women over the years before I met Ms. Grizzled Coastie. I don’t get it. Any of it. Maybe their parents weren’t there for them. Maybe they have a head of bad wiring.
But kids, just keep smoking your dope and stay away from the voting booths in 2012, please. And a shower would be nice.
Appro po of the “equally miserable” bit, grizzledcoastie, I saw a good definition of the distinction between socialists & capitalists the other day: “Capitalists believe that 10% of the people should earn $150,000/yr and the remaining 90% earn $50,000/yr; socialists, by contrast, believe EVERYONE should earn $25,000/yr.” LOL.
” I think that the most likely reason of all
is the fact that thier brains are two sizes too small”
Dr. Suess, ” How the Sillies Tried to Steal America “
The things you see when you don’t have a draft board….
No, I wouldn’t trust these twits with weapons, either. But there is no need to risk valuable robots disposing of IEDs when you have an alternative.
LOL! Mike M. (of the UAVs) ABSOLUTELY wins the thread!
Mike, that’s just sick and wrong. So it says something about me that I agree with you>
The return of cannon fodder…. Has some merit perhaps.
Mike M. (of the UAVs) owes me a keyboard.
Raised by ” helicopter parents “, told all their lives they are ” special ” ( even though they are not ), handed everything they ever whined for because their parents wanted to be their friends instead of being parents – Why would you expect them to have different outlook on life ?
This is something I wrote about – I call it ” The Hippies Revenge ” as these 20 something’s have been molded by those who embraced the philosophy of the Hippies, and those who are in education who are cut from the same cloth.
While I may be unemployed for the moment, I see that it is up to me to work on that, not demand someone else fix it. The only hope we have is I saw other members of this same generation standing guard in AFGHN, and they do not share the sense of entitlement that these feckless idiots do.
Yes, things are f&cked up now, but we can fix that at the ballot box in about a year….
“And having face to face meetings in Starbucks while using the free WiFi, provided by that corporation that thrives on part timers for the bulk of the labor force.
I guess some evil corporations are more equal than others….”
Amen and +1000…oh, yeah, and while their neo-Greedy, Wealthy parents provide them with all their costs and toys and cars and a roof over their heads…What happens when their parents go Galt on their butts?
I saw all this before, up front and personal, in Berzerkely in the late 60′s and 70′s (not that I think that it has really left there, but it is smaller at the UC school there – if you don’t count the faculty). The problem I have with it when the lame old media puts it on display on TV is that they don’t use the moment to teach why these idiots are so off course and how their arguments don’t work. Because, of course, either the lame old media agrees with them (unless they threaten the too-high pay of the in-crowd in the lame old media) OR the lame old media can’t come up with counter arguments due to lack of ability.
As a member-in-good-standing of the evil, slowly-losing-its hegemonic-grip-on-society “Patriarchy” Lex is clearly a behind-the-times, out-of-step, slowly fossilizing Dino. (Not unlike some others of us here that I can think of, lol) But beware! Fossil tho he may be, he is once again, a fast-moving FIGHTING FOSSIL not yet fully calcified! In his new job he now be mobile, agile & hostile! Hippies beware!
(Too bad your flying “air-superiority” go-cart doesn’t have “bombs-ripple” on its wpns selector panel–could be useful if the demonstrations hit the SoCal area hard.
)
I frankly wouldn’t mind it if they dragged the CEOs, that took billions of our tax-funded bailout dollars and still paid themselves bonuses when they should have all been fired, out of their offices and beat the crap out of them.
The rest of their agenda…not so much.
Did some one say bongos?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkDJU32AEAQ
R. Feynman played the bongos.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKTSaezB4p8
Will someone please explain why the Left thinks that “tea-bagger” is offensive? I mean, I know what “tea-bagging” is, and I would much rather be the “tea-bagger” than the “tea-baggee”.
As long as it is loving and consensual…
Joe, your a bad man.
Thank you!
Our Secondary education system at work. Complaning about how much they owe in student loans, but, can’t even form a complete sentence. They want to know why they can’t find jobs, probably because they had majors like “Women’s Studies” or “Pre- Victorian Art”.
Can you say Van Jones? Follow the tin-foil hats! http://www.theroot.com/blogs/van-jones/van-jones-makes-his-next-move
…”But activist and author Van Jones sees the protest as just the beginning. On Monday, speaking before attendees at the Take Back the American Dream Conference — a Washington, D.C. meeting of multiple progressive organizations working to build a cohesive national agenda — he interrupted his PowerPoint presentation to give an update from New York. Describing the activists as courageous in the face of police pepper spray and arrests, he announced that U.S. Marine veterans were reportedly joining the protesters.
“Marines are going to protect them and stand with them in their dress blues,” Jones exclaimed to hundreds of cheering participants, of various ages and ethnic backgrounds, assembled in a ballroom at the Washington Hilton Hotel. “This is a movement moment! Something’s happening in America! Don’t you give up on this country! Don’t you give up on this movement! This is your movement!”…
“Marines???” In Uniform???
Dogs ?…not a flippen chance…Jarheads, Coasties Squids et als…don’t think so…
…as for Zoomies?…alas…one never knows. Best
I find them so – boring. So – 1967. They are unoriginal.
A poem about the gathering:
http://themorningspew.com/2011/10/04/ode-to-the-wall-street-protesters-by-penny-thawtz/
Ode to the Wall Street Protesters
By Penny Thawtz
Deep in the heart of Manhattan,
On the street the founders named Wall,
An army of losers has gathered,
Demanding our money for all.
“Look!” they cried as they marched,
“We haven’t worked for a dime,
But that doesn’t mean we’re not worth it,
Your productiveness is the real crime!”
“The rich are the problem,” they bellow,
“They hog it for all themselves.”
“Why should they keep their money,
When we could spend it so well?”
And so they marched through the streets,
Chanting and calling us names,
With calls for mayhem and violence,
They seemed to enjoy their memes.
Now, the Hollywood blowhards were worried,
They were comping the pizzas in droves,
“It’s not our obscene wealth which you protest,
But perhaps it should be Karl Rove’s.”
The fat one, the Yoko, and the beheader,
Encouraged and egged them on,
That was merely a diversionary tactic,
To keep them off THEIR own lawn.
And the one with the pendulous breastusus,
Claimed she only came to learn more.
So she mingled a short time with their leaders,
Then jetted off to Italy’s shore.
“The rich are the ones we are after, “
They reassured the celebrity libs,
“The millions you hoard don’t matter,
The capitalists, THEY are the PIGS!”
With I-pads and cell phones and bank cards,
Starbucks and Whole Foods, too,
They tweeted and blogged to the world,
The wonders they were going to do.
And so this nonsense they’ll continue,
All zombied and smelling quite ripe.
But they’re not quite sure how to end this,
Causing Mommy and Daddy to gripe.
The cost of your little excursion, they cry,
Is beginning to drain their cash.
They’ll have to sell off their Exxon,
Or swipe from your college stash.
Come home little darling, Mom texted,
For your plan has really not worked,
Wall Street’s still great and it’s thriving,
And to the world you’re still a BIG JERK.
The chap has an interesting resume:
http://legalinsurrection.com/2011/10/ny-times-poster-child-for-occupywallstreet-not-what-he-seems/
Great find, Jim.
And, they are supposed to be here in Portland this Thursday! Can’t wait!
Stand by. Like it or not, they will soon be coming to a city near you.
This spontaneous movement seems to be gaining steam, as quite a number of protests are being planned in many cities across the country in the coming weeks. Also it looks like organized labor is getting involved with the movement, putting a more mature face on the protests. Moreover, many of the middle class whose job it is to maintain law, order, and infrastructure are not that far from sympathizing with the protest.
It appears reminiscent of the original Tea Party protests. Apparently some of original Tea Partier’s have moved to this movement. It is growing.
So far just a grass roots movement with a variety of axes to grind. But there is a legitimate and common thread: ” … the demonstrators are seeking accountability for Wall Street and corporate America for the financial crisis and the growing economic inequality gap.”
It will be interesting to see how this plays out; if it has legs and influence, or just fizzles. But like the Arab Spring protests, needed and wanted change is in the air.
[Hey, somebody has to put a somewhat opposing opinion here, yes?]
Doing your medicinal mary jane again? Oh, yeah, the left extremists are ready and willing to get into bed with those who say cut the government back.
Come on, can’t the Organize America crwod send you something more possible, and/or have you forgotten to use critical thinking as a valuable tools to consider life with.
Sure…the fault is all the “right wing extremeists, ” regardless of who it really is….
And, then by extension, were the Hippies of Haight Asbury really tea baggers ahead of their time?
Would this be the same Wall Street that overwhelmingly donates campaign contributions to the dimocrats?
But their point may not be so far off when the latest Federal Reserve report states that the top 1% own more than 43% of the TOTAL WEALTH in this country. And when banks are borrowing at ZERO PERCENT from the Fed and charge the consumer an average of 13.1% for credit card debt, and Congress says you can only get 24 cents per debit card swipe and the poor banks have to charge a $5 debit card fee per month just to keep the doors open you know the train is definitely off the tracks. All we need is one Archduke and one Princip.
The financial boondoggle can be directly traced to the mortgage meltdown, which has direct roots to all of the shenanigans that the financial wizards pulled in laundering high risk mortgages into low risk packages. In short, fraud. Yet no one is in jail, and if your institution didn’t go under, you probably didn’t even lose your job. You still collect bonuses. That’s fubar.
The progressive nutcases do overlap the Tea Party in that regard.
In fact many, if not most, Tea Party movement sympathizers opposed bailing out the banks as well, and the securitization of bad mortages into somehow magically good bonds. So there is something to that. But I believe you’ll find that they’ll part company soon enough on other issues – like pumping large $$ into social programs for people who have never made an effort to earn them, higher taxes, etc.
The left was caught completely off guard by the rapid rise of the Tea Party movement and how well it’s members plugged into the message and acted effectively together to elect Congressmen and pressure those already in office. They like to say that it’s based on racism and greed, but in fact it’s based on the founding principles of this country – something that many on the left either don’t understand or don’t agree with. If you have a look at what the left is saying internally it’s got a lot of “we’re going to have our own Tea Party” or “this is our answer to the Tea Party” or “If they can do it we can do it”.
These protests will continue, as Fliterman says, I don’t doubt. But I don’t think it’s going to tie together into a movement. For one thing, the left isn’t as coherent. These people can’t agree on when to go to the bathroom. They have to hold meeting after meeting and deal with numerous agendas. The Tea Party folks are much more united around a more concise message.
Second, the only people who look at these folks and say “Hey, that’s me!” are people who were saying that when Pres. Obama was elected. A bunch of young kids running around with a few academic “adults” won’t attract your average independent voter. The Tea Party folks look and sound a lot more mature.
We’ll see. I’m betting, though, that these people as an organized group will have much less impact in November 2012 than the Tea Party movement will.
For one thing, the left isn’t as coherent. These people can’t agree on when to go to the bathroom. They have to hold meeting after meeting and deal with numerous agendas. The Tea Party folks are much more united around a more concise message.
More united and without have two or three months of planning and organizing. The TEA gatherings had a clear message, dial the federal government back to what is written in the Constitution, not give it license to do what it will at whim under the general welfare clause. As was said, ““With respect to the two words ‘general welfare,’ I have always regarded them as qualified by the detail of powers connected with them. To take them in a literal and unlimited sense would be a metamorphosis of the Constitution into a character which there is a host of proofs was not contemplated by its creators.” –James Madison
and, “I see…with the deepest affliction, the rapid strides with which the federal branch of our government is advancing towards the usurpation of all the rights reserved to the States, and the consolidation in itself of all powers, foreign and domestic…aided by a little sophistry on the words ‘general welfare,’ a right to do, not only the acts to effect that, which are specifically enumerated and permitted, but whatsoever they shall think, or pretend will be for the general welfare.
JEFFERSON, THOMAS, Letter to W. B. Giles, 1825
All too many on the left seem to think that the whole of the Constitution is “promote the general welfare” with no limitations.
Spontaneous my Lilly white ass, it’s been in the works for months. Trevor Loudon must be clairvoyant, he posted about it in August, for those who wish to be informed…..The info is out there, all you have to do is look for it.
http://trevorloudon.com/2011/08/how-serious-is-the-left-about-disrupting-america/
Planned spontaneous rallys?
Right, like the grassroots protests featuring people with matching signs and T-shirts.
Oh, good Lord, Flit, spare me!
This crap has astroturf all over it. Didn’t the “unemployed” shill working for the Progressive Patriots Fund tip you off?
I’d also appreciate it if you quit mindlessly echoing the “fat cats” slander/disinformation. The real culprits work in DC, where they’re still convinced they can tweak & muck about with our economy and society, just like tuning an engine.
Some of the tea partiers have moved to this movement? Seriously, think about that statement for a second. The Tea Party was a protest to get the jackboot of govt. off the throats of the people. The Van Jones Days of Rage B.S. is for MORE jackboots on more throats.
And this is not spontaneous by any means.
I wonder what these blithering idiots, most of whom voted for Theonewhowon, would think of all of the money he got from Wall Street? Granted, that was protection money no different than that paid to mobsters, but still, they gave to him a lot more than they gave to John McCain. A lot of fat good that protection money did them.
And if this an example of the best and brightest of the next generation, God help us all. These people are uneducated, selfish (living wage for all those who work and even for those who don’t) and stupid. The sad thing is that they think they are brilliant. Self-esteem bullcrap at it’s finest. You are not a unique snowflake. You are whale sh*t. You are not even human beings. You are the lowest form of pathetic life. Pond scum. I wish some of these kids would have gotten that speech that I heard in Warrant Officer candidate school. It might’ve done some good.
These people are uneducated
There I would differ with you. I think many of them are very well educated. Maybe not in anything useful in the real world, but well educated.
But, well educated is not the same as intelligent. I’ve known people with masters and doctorates who, outside of their narrow specialties, were dumb as a box of rocks. And I’ve known high school drop outs who were brilliant, they just didn’t care for school.
The best and the brightests are in AF or Iraq, learning the hard lessons of life. They will, my prediction, return to stare down their burger flipping, college edumacated peers when it gets ugly, and know what to say/do to save the day. One name of recent mention in dispatches I submit for the “next generation:” Dakota Meyers..USMC.
Hey Grizzled at least you were a higher life form. In Army Warrant Rotorhead School we were lower than Whale Dung.
Correction, I meant BCT was when I heard that speech. But you get the idea.
What I find interesting is that the TEA gatherings, which may have been loud, but were reasonably polite, with hardly a “F**k” “S**t” or other expletive on signs, posters, or banner were the epitome of evil and for the most part allowed free passage of others, were evil incarnate. But this gathering, the hallmark of which is vulgarity and spewing of hate of and for our freedom is a Shining Example of We the People trying to right wrongs.
I wonder, how much trash and garbage is that group generating every day? It will be interesting to see, when it breaks up, how much trash is left for others to clean up. I know that at similar themed protests, say at conventions, the left wingers so concerned with the environment have left hundreds of cubic yards of trash, even one day demonstrations generate huge amounts. But full day, or full weekend TEA events leave very little for others to clean up. I think that says a lot about the different mentalities in play.
Sportsfans–and flit/
The “Occupation” movement is HARDLY spontaneous. It’s an organized (at its core) “Astro-Turf” operation all the way. Can’t remember the link (forgot to bookmark it) but there are a whole host of Soros-backed and Communist front organizations ginning this thing up. Just for starters, one could go no further than to just compare the signage. Almost 100% of the TEA party protester’s signs were/are home-made. The “Occupation” movement signage is largely professionally printed.
Now this is not to say that a lot of outraged “average” citizens haven’t glommed onto these demonstrations out of frustration and naivete, but they’re in the distinct minority. It is risible–outright laughable–to compare the TEA Party movement with this professionally Astro-Turfed operation.
Exactly right, Virgil. It was heavily orchestrated, I recall reading something about it back in July. Far from the ‘spontaneous demonstration’ it is portrayed as being.
The only thing I might offer a correction on is that from what I have seen, most of the signs in this are hand lettered. And, again, I wonder how many of those signs will end up left there for others to clean up.
By the way, did you enjoy that piece I asked Lex to forward to you? And have you stopped sputtering yet?
Joe/
Yep–file under heading of “The World Is Being Run By Crazy People” alright. It never ends, does it Joe? Haven’t had a chance to see how the lefty Louisville Courier-Journal is treating it–been having problems w. my machine only now just rectified (partially)
‘course, you see things like this and you start to wonder.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dfNUQQIje1w&feature=related
PS: Remembered! Head on over to Kates’ place @ http://www.smalldeadanimals.com and go to the heading “The Barbarians At The Gate” to find multiple links about those backing/organizing these demonstrations.
There is nothing the left does that is spontaneous. Astro-Turf is all they know.
Oh, and while you’re there, for a REAL hoot, scroll down to the 3 Oct heading “Free unicorns for all” for a look at the “complete and final overthrow of reality” by this crowd as one of Kate’s posting associates puts it.
Best comment from the link at Lex’s update, from someone who said they voted Democrat all their lives, until 2008:
If these professional agitators and their useful idiots think that even longtime Liberals in this country are all primed and ready to usher in the glorious worker’s paradise, they have another think coming. If that’s what “liberal” means anymore in this country, then hand me a tri-cornered hat and baptize me in tea. Because they are nuts, dangerous, and I want nothing to do with them.
One down; 58 million to go.
This is proof positive that college, in many cases, does not automatically make someone smarter. I always referred to a PhD as a Piled Higher and Deeper for a reason. Going back to college when the Coast Guard thought that a proper officer should have at least a bachelor’s, I couldn’t believe how leftward slanted the faculty was. And this was at a SEC school in the heart of the Bible Belt. I got into a big argument with one of my political science professors, who was teaching a “defense policy” class. He told me to take my “Clinton-bashing” elsewhere. So much for diversity…of thought that is. I love listening to these “educated” kids spout simple talking points they heard in whatever class they took last summer. I thought college was to teach you to think for yourself, not be a drone.
The Profs in “Liberal” Arts are drones. What on earth do you expect their product to be?
The boys and girls of UCSC and all the others who are surely entitled will be gathering in the park behind the most liberal venue in town this evening. Santa Cruz cops have said “we will allow it” (how nice of them). They will march towards what’s left of “downtown” and there the homeless and vagrant persons of interest will join them. It could be fun. The media are heavy into foreplay and the climax will surely convince us of the evil of Austrian Economics.
The Good Lord is bringing rain.
Yes, UCSC is that most CONSERVATIVE of ALL the UC system if memory serves me, right SCDave?
Yup, They honed their skills by observing the Berkeley plant, hiring Angela Davis and celebrating 4-20 on an annual basis.
Reminds me of Li’l Tommy Smothers’ schtick.
MORE on whose behind the protests@
http://patriotupdate.com/12892/whos-really-behind-wall-street-protests
I don’t care what the protestors look like, their age, the quality of their signs, whether they pick up after themselves, who funds them, and if they are co-opted by unions, etc.
But I seriously do care about the fundamental and underlying reasons for some of their protests. And as should everyone…. at least the 99% of us.
Since 1% controls 40% of the wealth, and controls most all politics with unlimited campaign funds and lobbyists, we other 99% should be more than a little upset. 99% -regardless of what the protesters look like, their age, their signs, etc. – yes 99% of us should be against the extraordinary greed and corruption of the 1%. It needs to change, not only because it is wrong, but also because it invites civil unrest if not revolution.
Someone mentioned earlier the “Archduke” and it was a salient comment. When there is great social and economic disparity, and many different and opposing factions begin to arise, coupled with deteriorating international economies and unemployment, it is reminiscent of the fomenting 1890s.
Young students that protest are not the problem. They are only messengers. The problems are the recession, unemployment, loss of the middle class, bought and paid for politics, corporate greed and corruption, unproductive bailouts, and a national malaise and decline. Care about all that.
For extra credit
Curious Filt… Assuming I think the Wealthy are the Problem… (which I have an easier time thinking Rosy O’Donnell as ‘thin’)… What’s your idealistic solution to narrowing this terrible wealth gap? And thus implied “Power Gap”? I’m also assuming that it HAS to be an institutionalized, if not Nationalized, re-distributive model no?
And finally, I also find it odd that there is an unspoken assumption that the Wealthy are inherently evil simply because of being “Wealthy”. I find more and more that the “Wealthy” are more generous, magnanimous, and outright genuine than my more “Middle-Class” friends. As for our elected leaders of both political parties… I do indeed think the majority are corrupt, but I see this more as a failure of our pop-culture society failing to hold these elected officials accountable to THE LAW! Or worse, allow – get out of jail free laws that only apply to these officials.
JC – Wrong assumption. There is nothing wrong with being wealthy. We all should be so lucky.
But there is something wrong with excessive greed, fraud, and unregulated gaming the system at the expense of others. And there is especially something wrong with the horrible trend- when the few rich keep getting richer, while most everyone suffers.
“The Rise of the Super Rich This trend cannot continue without having huge and unfortunate consequences.
How to solve it is a difficult question. But better regulation to stem the wild Wall Street casino operations, have the wealthy give their fair share in taxes, and an improving economy with more jobs would be a great start.
You are right about holding elected officials accountable to the law. And how about all those on Wall Street who lied, cheated, and stole, sending the country if not half the world into a recession while they got bonuses? There are quite a number who should be behind bars.
Serious question, fliterman. And I’m as pissed at the Wall Street jollies as the next man with a 201K. But who broke what laws? And if they did so, why has not AG Holder prosecuted them? Or is incarceration of those who anger us the new equivalent of witch burning?
Good questions, but I really don’t know. Holder and the SEC should be prosecuting. Why they aren’t is troublesome. Holder may be in bed with some of the perpetrators.
Jiminy, Lex, I’ve flooded you with links over the past year detailing who broke what laws, and more importantly, that the SEC under anyone, Bush or Obama, is a wholly-owned subsidiary of the financial industry, and is utterly incapable of investigating their masters (who ain’t us, or even the USG).
The “elite” of both parties are in bed with “Wall Street.” If we were to determine who is responsible and jail them, you’d have most of the political apparatus in jail, right along with the “Wall Street” types who dreamed up the packaging routine and the rating agencies that said those were AAA.
Gordon Gecko’s statement that “greed is good” has been pretty much trashed by reality. Greed leads people to lust after gain and then go after it no matter the damage that might be done.
There was a reason that God placed “Thou Shalt Not Covet” in the decalogue.
Prosecuting whom? Maxine Waters for telling lies about Fanny & Freddie? Saying that everything was just fine? Barny Franks for the same thing?
Again, you are throwing out fuzzy emotionalism.
Yup. If there were any justice, most of the Democrats in Congress would be in prison for fraud.
Filt, Couple of things, fair enough on establishing that there is nothing wrong with being wealthy… As for the ‘Lucky’ part I disagree for the most part. That is part of the conceptual problem with understanding wealth in this nation. Many assume that wealth is gained by ‘Luck’ or ‘Fortune’ (as in fortunate) or by ‘Blessing’… all are certainly contributors in some degree or another. But wealth involves WORK, Discipline, Intellect, and social skills. My fortunes have been derived from all of the aforementioned, but all is through MY actions, yes I have been offered positions at companies that pay me pretty well, but these are contracts between me and my employer, I am compensated for my perceived worth, not because me and my boss get along!
Nothing is preventing those who are not wealthy from becoming wealthy. It takes effort, something many do not want to attempt. These growing feelings of resentment are the off-spring of copulating with Entitlement. I feel for all who are out of work currently, or are underpaid due to the current economic situation, I have been there! A number of times! I know there are better times ahead, and the less it involves a Government Solution, the better!
“Give their fair share in taxes…” – nice subtlety… no one “GIVES” taxes! They are lawfully taken under threat of arrest or fine from our government… I only give out of magnanimity, and trust me April 15 sure doesn’t feel like Christmas to me. And as to what is “Fair”… by who’s definition? Is 50% fair? 70%? 25%?
And as for prosecuting those on Wall Street guilty of violating laws designed to protect we the people… Please! Have at them! As Lex asks, where’s Justice? The Department that is? — Having a scotch or two with the Goldman Sachs I suspect! Problem is, if you really start to prosecuting those responsible for our financial crisis, there will be no-one left for Corporations to Purchase the votes of!
You have choices in the United States, if wealth is what you are after… Don’t join a Union, Don’t become a Teacher, don’t join the Military! If Job satisfaction is what you are after, then all of these professions are noble, admirable and hell, needed! But again, caveat emptor… No one owes you a Million for performing a noble service. If wealth is what you seek, then pursue it! Others have and succeeded, millions have failed… and thousands have succeeded after failing numerous times! That’s the beauty of Capitalism, it encourages (not rewards) bravery, determination, and adventure. It teaches through failure! Too big to fail??? Dumbest words ever uttered! “Too stupid to succeed” should have been our mantra! And what did we do? Entitled them more! Yeah… let the Government solve the problem!
Nothing is preventing those who are not wealthy from becoming wealthy.
It is an axiom of the Left that this is not true. Stand up and say that in front of them and you will be shouted down. Their faith – i.e., belief in the absence of evidence – is that if you are not white and male you cannot become wealthy, or will have a much more difficult time than if you were white and male. Welcome to the concept of “unearned privilege”, presumed to be owned by all whites and no one else, wherein your race and sex determine your fate and not your own efforts. Racism and sexism are institutionalized in our society and are difficult if not impossible to overcome.
Their faith – i.e., belief in the absence of evidence – is that if you are not white and male you cannot become wealthy
Tell that to Oprah.
The top 1% control 40% of the wealth, but only 1% of the political power. The other 99% control 99% of the votes. OK, the top 1% probably has a disproportionately low concentration of disenfranchised felons, so we’ll say 95% of the votes. I fail to see how the wealthy can be said to control the political system. I mean the tea party managed to wreak merry hell inside the GOP in just 2 years, and they’re not done yet.
Unless you find it inconceivable that the body politic disagrees with you and so the only permissible explanation is that the populace are mindless sheep led hither and yon by the moneyed elite. I guess then you can justify protecting the poor dears from “bad” messages. Of course why should sheep be given any say in the first place?
You mention the rich should pay their fair share. What is it? What specific portion of tax receipts should the top 1% pay? The top 10%? The top 25%? Define your terms, otherwise you are little more than a mindless beast braying into the wind.
Flit, what is the “fair share?” Should a person with a wage income of $100,000 have to pay taxes on that at twice the rate of someone making $50,000? And should the person making $50,000 have to pay at twice the rate of someone making $25,000?
How about return on investments? If a person invests, say, $100,000 and earns 4% on that, do you tax it as a wage? At what rate do you tax it?
Define your terms, don’t just throw out Kos and HuffPo talking points and emotional phrases.
Joe, might I have the temerity to suggest that the definition of the requisite “fair share” of taxes one should pay is, like beauty and obscenity, in the eye of the beholder. I’m always reminded of that famous quote by King Louis XIIIs’ Chief Minister Cardinal Richelieu, who raised all the money for the King’s wars, and once opined that: “…successful taxation policy is akin to the plucking of the down feathers from the Goose with the minimal amount of hissing.” LOL.
Joe, that’s one of the core defects of the Progressive ideology. Even ignoring the idiocy of trying to impose “fairness” (which, as you observed, is highly subjective), it ignores one of the most elemental principles of modern liberty: the protection of private property. Just because someone is rich doesn’t mean they magically lose their God-given rights.
I think the progressive/socialist/communist/leveler/term of the month idea of “fairness” comes from an improper understanding of “all men are created equal.”
They have twisted it to somehow mean that everyone is supposed to be equal in all things, not just before God and the bar of justice. The tweaker with only two unburned brain cells who is barely qualified to sweep floors is entitled to the same economic compensation as the architect who designed the building containing those floors, the construction workers who built the building, and the skilled workers fill the skilled positions for the businesses in that building.
Multi-billionaires Buffet and Mark Cuban and many others know and admit they are not paying their “fair share.”
A good start for fair share – before total tax reform – would be ending the foolish wartime Bush tax cuts for the wealthy.
Which doesn’t answer the question, Flit. What is a “fair share?”
And, so what if Buffet and Cuban say something? I don’t see either one writing chequest to the IRS to pay more. Nor is either one liquidating assets and giving the funds to the government.
And, really, the tired old mantra of “Bush tax cuts for the wealthy.” I thought better of you. How is an across the board tax cut for everyone a “tax cut for the wealthy?” The top bracket went from 40% to 35% roughly the lowest went from 15% to 10%, again, roughly. the next lowest went from 28% to 15%. The number of people in the lowest income brackets that paid NO, as in ZERO, taxes, jumped from about 30% to around 45% because of those “Bush tax cuts for the wealthy.”
When Buffets class-warfare propaganda piece came out someone on another forum posted about it in a section “Worst of America” talking like you do and spouting about “stop coddling the wealthy.” Here is my response:
Interesting piece. Especially the way he mixes types of income and goes back and forth between individual and household incomes.
Interesting bit here: “In 2008, the aggregate income of the highest 400 had soared to $90.9 billion ”
Hmmm….OK, let’s make it simple. Tax the top 400 at 100%. What does that bring in for the federal coffers? And let’s round up some – call it $100,000,000,000. So 100,000,000,000/14,000,000,000,000 (hmmm…carry the..and the decimal goes….) WOW! That comes to about 0.7%!!!!
Or the other number that he threw in for us, about 237,000 households (not individuals) with incomes over $1,000,000/year (he didn’t say where that number comes from, but let’s take it as fact). Now, most of those, I think it safe to assume, will be a lot closer to the $1,000,000 than to $10,000,000 – near as I can make from the tables I’ve found about 85 to 90% fall in that range, I’d be happy to be proven wrong if you care to check things yourself. What percentage of the debt can we really expect to cover if we were to tax everything over $1,000,000 at, oh, 90%? 2%? 3%? Still sounds a whole lot more like a spending problem than a revenue problem to me.
Funny how all those rich leftists shout that we need to ‘tax the rich’ but none of them seem to be willing to cash in their chips and send a big check to the feds. Not that it would do much good – if we were to totally strip all the wealth from the top 10 in the US, the feds would get 300 billion (roughly). Stripping the top three – all whom are very left leaning – would bring in about 125 billion.
Nor do we see the left wing politicians, with the cry of ‘tax the rich’ on their lips, willingly cashing in their chips and giving to the feds or state. Kerry docking his huge yacht out of state so he doesn’t have to pay taxes on it – heck, not even selling his huge yacht and giving that money to the feds. We don’t see DiFi selling her roughly $100,000,000 in assets and giving that to the government.
And Pelosi: “House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) saw her net worth rise 62 percent last year, cementing her status as one of the wealthiest members of Congress.
Pelosi was worth at least $35.2 million in the 2010 calendar year, according to a financial disclosure report released Wednesday. She reported a minimum of $43.4 million in assets and about $8.2 milion in liabilities.” Don’t see her stripping herself of her wealth.
Buffett’s piece is a nice bit of class warfare propaganda. You did well putting it in the “Worst” section, as it is one of the most polemic, divisive pieces I have seen outside of Kos.
One thing I will say for the demonstrators is that they are vilifying Obama with almost as much fervor as they vilify “corporations.”
Unfortunately, most will still vote for him next year.
one word….PATCHOULI.
Bless you!
Here is a bit more….A little light reading on the subject.
Many if not most on both sides of the aisle are complicit and to blame. It is a result of selective 1% representation and rule by the powerful and moneyed one percent, rather than we the people. It is not quite the left vs. the right, or exactly class warfare. Rather It is the unethical and criminals fleecing the sheep! And getting away with it! Not only that but then being lavished with bonuses and severances in the multi-millions for their crimes!
Where is the outrage? Where are the investigations? Where is the justice?
There won’t be any until we the people, rather than the mega-corporations and the Soros’s and Kock’s are reigned in.
Is the SEC Covering Up Wall Street Crimes?
Calls Begin For Prosecuting Wall Street Criminals: Was The Crisis Caused By Crime?
Why Aren’t Wall Street Criminals in Prison?
Federal justice apparatus often protects corporate criminals, not citizens”
PS: One of the very few times I agree with Ayn Rand, but it is pertinent:
flit/
Oh there’s plenty of cynical greed on Wall St. alright, and some of it even criminal. But the real culprits in all of this–the “prime movers,” if you will–were the political class of Democrat lefty “progressives”–the Barney Franks of this world–who created the conditions–both legal and social atmospherics–that allowed/caused this all to happen in the form of all the “anti red-lining” Banking laws rammed thru by the Dims that, under pain of penalty, literally forced banks to lend to un-creditworthy people. Now I’m not saying that this was done with evil intent; rather a long-held and valid belief (of “The road to hell is paved with good intentions” variety) that, in general, home ownership stabilizes society and makes one a stake-holder in the future. The problem was in the usual governmental ham-fisted execution that, based on faulty statistics, attempted to solve a problem that didn’t exist by forcing lending institutions to make loans to un-credit-worthy individuals. Once the banks, mortgage companies, etc., saw how much money there was to be made in up-front fees, etc., they, like Willy Sutton, (“Why do you rob banks Willy?” Ans: “Because that’s where the money is.”)decided to go where the REAL money was–the middle class–by applying the same loose “sub-prime” standards for lending originally intended for poor people to otherwise credit-worthy individuals thereby encouraging them to over-extend themselves and/or speculate in the RE market. And this is where Wall St. let the pure greed take over. But note: although Wall St. greed was a necessary condition, it was not sufficient. Were in not for the Banking Reinvestment Act(s)that literally forced the financial services industry into this mode of operation, in all likely-hood, the RE speculative “bubble” and the resultant spread of highly leveraged risky financial instruments throughout the entire financial world would have never materialized.
In a way, flit, what happened in 2008 was presaged by the earlier at-that-time greatest financial meltdown the US had ever seen–the Savings & Loan collapse. It too was at root not the result of evil criminal intent (although there was some of that involved also) but of faulty Congressional mandated policy driven by Congress’ felt need to respond to it’s constituents–the S&Ls. They were the bed-rock of small communities and were going under due to financial dis-intermediation (being forced to pay 20% on deposits to attract new money while taking in 4-5% money from old loans.)caused by Jimmy Carter-caused stagflation and 23% interest-rates. Congress atempted to rectify their financial woes by allowing them to invest in speculative real-estate to keep up w. inflation and raised FDIC insurance from $10,000/account to $100,000/account which allowed speculative bundling. Such well-intentioned Congressional actions allowed greed–criminal and otherwise– to be put in play to game the system. But these losses were small potatoes in the overall scheme of things compared to the “un-fixable” damage Carter’s economic policies did to the financial services industry and the national economy. IOW, both the S&L debacle AND the sub-prime mortgage debacle were both at root based on huge mistakes in public policy. The actual “crimes” involved were, “relatively” speaking, small potatoes. Or as French Foreign Minister Tallyrand once said of a policy debacle to an associate who called it “criminal”: “Mais non! It is FAR worse than a crime–it is a mistake!” Criminal activity can be surmounted; mistakes in judgement, i.e., policy “mistakes,” can doom entire civilizations.
So if you want to know where the real blame for the root-cause of the sub-prime debacle lies flit, look no further than your “liberal” heroes in Congress.
PS: And I should in fairness add that were it not for the advances in computing-power that allowed the creative design of the various bundled tranches of sub-prime mortgages and the failure of the ratings agencies that allowed these sub-prime infused instruments to be rated AAA
the damage done by the Community Reinvestment Act would have in all likely-hood been far less and less wide-spread.
I stopped reading after this little gem:
How dare we define crime in terms of law!
And then there’s this:
You mean like the one we have today? Prior bad acts, much less suspicion, are generally not considered evidence of guilt.
The whole argument reduces to “There is a dead body. There must be a murderer.”
You also say the likes of Soros and the Koch brothers need to be “reigned in.” How, exactly do you expect to do that? Do you lose your rights to free expression when you become wealthy, or do we simply restrict political speech to those wealthy enough to purchase TV stations, newspapers, or billboard companies? Every single effort to “get money out of politics” has had the effect of increasing the political power of the wealthy and well-connected.
BTW, you still haven’t answered the question about what is the wealthy’s fair share of taxes.
The problem Flit is the term you use, greed. One man’s greed is another man’s achievement. I don’t begrudge the wealthy nor do I covet their riches. I believe true riches are ones that can’t be counted in dollars and cents.
Fair share? That’s not for government to decide. That’s straight from Marx, from each according to his ability, to each according to his need (or needs). The tax code is not intended for punishing the naughty and rewarding the righteous. I’ve seen what life is like just across the border in East Germany during the Cold War under that kind of system. The party chieftains in their dashas and Zil limos shop at stocked stores, while the other bastards freeze in tenements built by drunks and fight for inferior consumer goods and wait five years to get a Trabant, one of the worst cars ever built. That’s exactly what Obama and his ilk want for us. That kind of “fairness.”
I’ve seen these protestors’ demands. Wiping away all debt? A living wage, whether you’re working or not? These are moronic in the extreme. If this is what our best and brightest are learning in college, I’m glad that my two of my kids passed on college entirely.
If someone is breaking the law, they should be punished. Eric Holder and the SEC should be prosecuting them.
I do agree with you Flit in one respect. The bi-factional ruling party is wholly beholden to those who can fund their campaigns and keep them in power. Like Obama with Solyndra. All of that green energy bullsqueeze was simply a way of rewarding contributors, nothing more.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2TF8L2DWhpw&feature=player_embedded
‘Yesterday, Nobel prize-winning economist Joe Stiglitz met with the “Occupy Wall Street” protesters to support their cause. Stiglitz said, among other things, that Wall Street got rich by “socializing losses and privatizing gain… that’s not capitalism… its a distorted economy.” ‘
I’d love to properly occupy Wall Street. I don’t agree with everything these economists say, but they describe what Wall Street did to America pretty well.
OTOH, this bunch of weenies is just as benighted as the SOB who got ripped off with a fraudulent mortgage and still keeps paying his monthly Danegeld, all the while shaking his fist at those unwashed rich-kid hippies he sees on his new flatscreen.
“socializing losses and privatizing gain… that’s not capitalism… its a distorted economy.”
+1
Wall Street is reaping what it sowed. These useful idiots have the free time to sit around and antagonize them while I, who am just as pissed off, go to work each day. I have no sympathy for Wall Street in this case.
Oh, I do care about all that. God knows that nobody I know cared for the bank bailouts. But understand that the greed and corruption isn’t limited to the corporate hierarchy.
Did you borrow more money than you could afford to pay back to buy a house by getting a balloon loan figuring that you’d keep making ever-increasing amounts of money or could re-finance down the line? And now you’re underwater and can’t afford to pay the loan? That’s as much your greed as the bank’s. If you’d bought a house that you could have paid for with the income you had at the time you took out the loan you’d probably still be in it.
Work for a public union and keep hammering for more and more money and huge pensions that you can collect starting at age 50? Tell me who’s greedy there.
It takes votes to elect politicians. It doesn’t matter how much money you make, you only get one vote. Can politicians get media coverage by using campaign money? Sure. But to draw a direct line from there to buying votes means that you presume that the majority of voters are stupid sheep. You strip away their agency. You presume that people cannot think on their own, that they are helplessly drawn to 30-second ads and away from news and commentary, away from facts that take more than a glance to read and comprehend. Well, guess what? Alexis de Toqueville said that in a democracy you get the kind of government you deserve, and he was right. Democracy can survive a lot of things but it can’t survive stupid voters who don’t know who their State rep and senator is but who can name the final 5 finishers on American Idol for the last 3 years or the Bears’ last 4 starting quarterbacks.
Here in Illinois the legislature passed a 60% tax hike, from 3% on your income to 5%. Every single penny of it will go to fund public union pensions. Why do those pensions need that much money? Greed. The union members, knowing that the pensions were pushing the State of Illinois to bankruptcy, still demanded that either the politicians put those in or they wouldn’t vote for them. And politicians, knowing that they would bankrupt the State, put their own private interests over the principles for which they put their hands on a Bible and swore to uphold and legislated those pensions in so that the unions wouldn’t work against them and they would keep getting re-elected. Meanwhile people like me, working in the private sector, get to pay those taxes and get absolutely nothing for them.
Fliterman, you make some points but you miss some. The fact that 1% of the people have 40% of the wealth is not a problem if the other 99% is productive enough that the total amount of wealth thus created is such that they can live comfortably on the 60% left. But if the majority of that 99% is working for the State (Feds + state + county + local) or is supported by them (welfare, etc.), you have two results:
1) There’s not enough productivity to generate enough wealth to provide the tax base to support the tax consumers, and
2) The greed of the majority of that 99% will cause them to keep voting in people that will pay them more and more money from a shrinking pie of fewer and fewer private workers with no regard to whether those private workers can generate enough wealth to keep the whole thing afloat.
RonF = “It is an axiom of the Left…” Poppycock!
If there were not so many and overwheming obstacles blocking our way, we would most all be wealthy. While still possible, it is ever becoming much more difficult for anyone to become wealthy who not already is. And certain people have far less of a chance than others of ever becoming rich.
The American Dream is dying. Nearly half the population today believes and fears that their children will have a lower standard of living than they do now. And there are many actual reasons for that. Upward economic mobility may still exist, but is not as easy as it once was. The converse today is sadly more likely.
OH, the tolerance! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3Y9CARUwio&feature=player_embedded
You must be proud of this guy, eh, Flit?