Credo
"Sign on, young man, and sail with me. The stature of our homeland is no more than the measure of ourselves. Our job is to keep her free. Our will is to keep the torch of freedom burning for all. To this solemn purpose we call on the young, the brave, the strong, and the free. Heed my call, Come to the sea. Come Sail with me." -- John Paul Jones
"Pardon him, Theodotus; he is a barbarian, and thinks that the customs of his tribe and island are the laws of nature" --George Bernard Shaw, "Caesar and Cleopatra"
"And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music."--Friedrich Nietzsche
"A kind Providence has placed in our breasts a hatred of the unjust and cruel, in order that we may preserve ourselves from cruelty and injustice. They who bear cruelty, are accomplices in it. The pretended gentleness which excludes that charitable rancour, produces an indifference which is half an approbation. They never will love where they ought to love, who do not hate where they ought to hate."--Edmund Burke
“You say that it is your custom to burn widows. Very well. We also have a custom: when men burn a woman alive, we tie a rope around their necks and we hang them. Build your funeral pyre; beside it, my carpenters will build a gallows. You may follow your custom. And then we will follow ours.”--General Sir Charles Napier
"Μολὼν λαβέ" -- Leonidas
"Blogito Ergo Sum" -- Neptunus Lex
If this had NOT been DIY project the navy & marines might have been able to get this equipment some time next decade and M(B)illions of dollasr later.
And the Marines, via NAVAIR, hedge their bets on the F-35B, among other things: http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?i=8225756&&s=TOP I’d say that CMC Amos is trying to get ahead of the upcoming budget cuts as well as he can.
That is a MOST interesting bit of news. Buying the British Harriers is a smart move.
If only they could modify the C130 into a VTOL configuration and make a version that could drop off a well-deck into the ocean and cruise 30 mph, they’d be all set.
I found MCTSSA quite interesting and refreshing. They responded to Urgent Need Statements in 90 days or less with some amazing innovations. Designed,Tested, fielded and in service in theater. Awesome.
To paraphrase Alton Brown, “there are no uni-task tools in the Marine Corps.”
Given the way Washington does its accounting the White House can now claim to have saved billions from not having to develop this platform, so that money is now available to be spent on providing health care insurance to alcoholic, Chinese hookers.
Nothing like taking off-the-shelf stuff, upgrading and/or tweaking it and improving the force in both a timely and cost-effective way. Which is why, if the Marines can buy British Harriers and shoe-horn in US avionics, why can’t the USAF and the USN buy the Russian Frog-foots and do the same avionics upgrade to fulfill the cas role that covers the A-10s supposed limitations–legs to get to the tgt from secure bases/carriers and the speed to do so in a timely fashion. Then give the A-10s to the Marines for FOB deployment.–CAS/TACAIR “problem” solved–and a helluva lot faster and cheaper than the F-35. I know, beating a dead horse, etc., but the Marine purchase of the Harriers is simply reflecting reality–something the F-35 proponents refuse to do..
I’m sure that this violates some procurement regulation or a congressional mandate (it might make it impossible for Senators and Congresscritters, and their bloated staffs, to profit from inside information if the services were able to obtain solutions without advance notice and some brother-in-law’s company getting the bid). And what about the Environmental Impact Statement process??
By the way: I have run and re-run the portion of the video just prior to impact when the perps hear something, their adrenaline kicks in, and they T R Y to run away….love that scene and the thought of what was going through their minds right before their asses were the final things to go there.
Gotta love vids like that.
Insurgents and terrorists getting their dues.
Reminds me of another favorite video of mine that was taped by the insurgents themselves, and recovered by our guys after they went to meet Allah. Video shows a bad guy dropping mortar shells into the tube just as fast as he can, all the while screaming Alahu Akbar! repeatedly.
Til finally the next round detonates on his arse from tube overheat.
Yes indeed. God is great!
i believe this is the one you are referring to
http://youtu.be/50HXHcl8rbE
I love it. Now all they need is to attach bombs to the Jato racks, rig an electrical release mechanism or just pickle them off manually like we use to do with the used Jato bottles.
15 years in the trusty old Whisper Herc…it’ll get the job done.
“…alcoholic, Chinese hookers.” How’d you know I had a new mistress??!!”
I thought your new mistress was an alcoholic, Haitian hooker who kept you well supplied with Barbancourt.
It’s the alcoholic haze, Boss. You got it right.
Story reminds me of the “Culin Hedgerow Cutter” from WWII. Or, if you think soldiers have lost their ability to innovate in the field, these Predator-style ammo boxes created by some Iowa ANG troops in Afghanistan.
http://www.robertsarmory.com/hedge.htm
http://techcrunch.com/2011/10/17/predator-inspired-ammo-backpack-cobbled-together-by-soldiers-in-afghanistan/
One thing that has differentiated US troops from the rest is the fact they have minds and don’t mind using them.
We were ab;e to keep up a pace of operations that the Brits had a hard time matching in WW2. If one of their vehicles broke down, they waited for a mechanic. If one of ours broke down, there was usually enough know how already on the truck to get it going again, unless you needed some off the wall part they didn’t carry.
Field inventions such as the ammo pack is typical of the Amerikaner Soldaten.
similarly the B-25 Mitchell underwent in the field modifications where additional armaments were added, many of these mods made there way back to the North American factories
Other than its updated and very impressive firepower and avionics how is this aircraft’s mission and capabilities any different from the Spooky/Puff ships (both C-47 & C-130)that the Zoomies flew, to great effect, some forty-three years ago? Best
My 1st thought too… but SnakeE. is just too quick.
filterman, So sorry for the preemption…I expected someone here (read-uber Zoomie,chaterbox/pontificator VX) to question this first off… but it didn’t happen…
…no matter…I think its fair to say that we might soon be subjected to a follow-up post that breathlessly announces …
…”Our Beloved Corps” has again “adapted, improvised and overcome” all obstacles in its path and re-invented…ta…da… THE WHEEL…can’t wait. Best
I don’t think you and Snake fully understand, flit. Reading between the lines from a distance, seems to me this thing is under the control of the USMC as a “dedicated” asset NOT subj. to the USAF-run TACC/”single-manager” system which co-mingles all air assets and could send Marine air off in the boonies supporting the Army while leaving Marines exposed. Looks to me as just another way for the Marines to get around the “single-manager” concept and back to dedicated Marine air. Anybody want to tell me I’m wrong? ‘Cause I’m really just guessing/inferring here, but it sure seems that way to me.
VX, Who manages the aircraft to what where and when was not my point…nor do I give a sh*t…this platform and its capability has been around for a long,long time and you know it…
…to repeat, for clarification…
… its a new iteration but its not a flippen new concept… and the Marines certaintly didn’t invent it…capiche? Best
Oh, totally agree on that point, Snake–and seen in that light this article/vid just all part of the USMC PR machine..
Snake, the Marines have never had the capacity to switch a Herc from the refuel role to the CAS role.
An AC-130 is about $190 million. They’re some of the most expensive birds in the fleet. The Marines simply can’t afford that.
In any event, the low-cost addition of Hellfire/Griffin missiles is a somewhat different approach to gunships than the AC-47/AC-119/AC-130 approach.
The original hopes for Harvest Hawk had included a side firing cannon (usually the 30mm Bushmaster was mentioned) but in the end, that was a bridge too far. But strapping on the missile system was pretty simple.
But the KC-130J’s primary role is and will remain as an aerial refueling platform.
Not only the cost/ease-of-conversion factor, but a side benefit is that the more precisely targeted “smart” missile systems mean no “collateral damage” to any nearby “innocent civilians” via ricocheting and/or errant 20/30/40mm slugs or via a small rain of brass shell-casings (or are they all contained internally?–can’t remember)
Nihil sub sole novum
Nothing new under the sun.
As pointed out by XBradTC, the genius isn’t in (re)creating a gunship, it’s in creating the ablity to utilize one existing aircraft as fuel hauler / gunship / cargo hauler in rapid succession with relatively simple field modifications. Multi-tasking is where it’s at.
classic example of adapt, improvise, overcome
Nice to see Ollie in drabs again.
Looks like that thing can deliver a great big crate of “F**k ‘em up”.
Interesting.
When I proposed to Lex using P-3/S-3 assets as CAS platforms (at a time when they were already heavily tasked to the ISR mission) he was pretty quick to argue against it, mainly as the communities didn’t have a culture of CAS/attack.
But he seems to be at least neutral about USMC trash haulers suddenly leaping into the CAS mission.
If our host has a moment, I’d like to hear his thoughts.
…not that you asked but its a day late for thoughts…
…its a fiat accompli. Best
XBrad/
The S-3 was used n the anti-shipping /small-boat/fast-boat strike role as well as used in attack/neutralization of oil rig gun platforms in the Gulf War, n’cest-ce pas?
Yes it was. That was part of why I thought it a reasonable fit for persistent CAS.
I think it might have been worthwhile just to develop a warlike mindset. It’s faded since the Soviet Union packed it in.
Perhaps I’m a little parochial when it comes to the blue side of the blue/green aviation team, but I think it’s cultural. The Corp’s mindset is every Marine a rifleman, and the air side of the MAGTF fully understands that their mission, when not defending themselves, is to support the engaged guy on the ground.
Marine officers attend The Basic School, where they get to play infantry officer regardless of their chosen service branch. Most of them know that they’ll get a chance to serve as a forward air controller sometime during their junior officer tours to keep them tight with the grunt infantry.
Naval aviation on the blue side tends to be a little more specialized.
Greetings:
My favorite Platoon Sergeant was fond of saying, “If it moves, put a gun on it; if it still moves, put another gun on it.” Worked for him, and me.
11B40:
So, when it no longer moves, do you take one gun off or get a bigger engine and/or better trany?
Paul
both.
Greetings:
With the repeal of Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell, it’s no longer appropriate to refer to one of those things as a “trany”.
And, yeah, the smallest one comes off. Gun, that is.
it seems to me that if this AC can loiter on it’s tanker track, which, given what i know of the ADA threat in theater, would be fairly close to wherever CAS was going to be needed anyway, the run from there to the target area should be short, and likely faster than scrambling other assets.
given the use of PGM, i’d think it would either stop whatever was happening right in its tracks due to speed of arrival, or, worst case scenario, hold the fort while the dedicated CAS assets transit to the location.
next question: how long before the AF hangs this sort of weaponry on Spectre, or will it suffer from NIH? seems to me that with all the additional MANPADS loose on the market post-Libya, standoff would be a good thing to have where possible.
I’m wondering how long before a bunch of those ex-Libyan MANPADS start appearing the AFG. We’re gonna do the experiment.
Does the same question apply to Marine/Army helos as well?
62,920 lbs of JP (at least that’s what the H model carried internally) allows a certain flexibility in hanging around until needed. Shutdown the outboards and stay all day…at least 8 hours.
“next question: how long before the AF hangs this sort of weaponry on Spectre”
According to Globalsecurity.org
“Work on a Precision Strike Package for the MC-130W began in 2010 to fulfill an urgent combat requirement to rapidly arm and field multi-mission precision strike platforms. The MC-130W Dragon Spear aircraft would provide an armed over-watch capability including sensors, communication systems, precision guided munitions, and a single medium caliber gun. An interim kit had been fielded and funded as February 2010 under a Combat Mission Needs Statement in FY09. It was expected that the MC-130W aircraft would return to their primary mobility role once Precision Strike Package was fielded on recapitalized AC-130H aircraft.”
Scroungy, opportunistic bastids – and I mean that in the best possible way.
O/T but just got back from the annual Golden Corral Veterans dinner. Sat with a former BUFF navigator, his wife and their grandson. He was in about 8 years before me but we were at a number of the same bases. Love the fellowship and sharing of memories. While I preferred TAC over SAC bases, it was neat to chat with him and his family.
Marines were the military reps -quite a difference between them and previous years of Army and NG. They looked and acted like Marines -no toys to show off, just Marines with the typical serious Marine deportment (well, in public anyway). Most enjoyable evening.
8 Hours overhead time.
The Harvest Hawk, Culin Hedgerow cutters, Predator style ammo pack..
All great systems that shows that innovation is alive and well and we are able to short circuit the normal procurement system when push comes to shove. After all, not every congresscritter’s father’s brother’s nephew’s cousin’s former roommate, needs to have a piece of the action.
But it surprises me that no one else has mentioned another leap past the bureaucratic procurement weenies. One that landed a devastating weapon in the hands of troops in record time during Desert Storm.
Take some old Army 8″ Artillery rifle barrels.
Pack full of HE and slap some fins on it.
Attach an LGB kit from a GBU-27 to the nose and VIOLA!
The GBU-28 Bunker Buster. Capable of penetrating over 100 feet of earth.
From first proposed, to dropped on a live target, including all the design, development and testing….
17 days!
Of course the gorram thing is over 18 and a half feet long and could only be carried by the Aardvark, but no ones perfect.
A very minor quibble- The ‘Vark was chosen because it was a more mature platform and they had a much better feel of its weapons separation characteristics. The Beagle was later cleared to carry/drop it, and is the primary TacAir platform for it today.
“Beagle?” Damn–I didn’t know we had borrowed some old IL-28s!
LOL, I thought the same thing. never heard that particular Nickname for the F-15E before.
Bomb Eagle… BEagle
Kinda like the Bombcat, for the Air to Mud capable Tomcat.
That’s what I thought, as well!
OT:
Just heard that Michael Durant will be speaking here on Thursday at the local college and open to the public.
I am definitely going to listen to him. What an opportunity. My Brother is going to and maybe I’ll get to speak personally with Durant and get signed my copy of “In the Company of Heroes”. My Brother knows and met with Durant before and was good friends with Donovan Briley when he was stationed at Ft. Campbell
Hellfire missiles on a Texaco? That is almost shades of former SecDef McNamara who wanted one aircraft to fit all missions! How did that work out?
Don’t get me wrong. I love that ingenuity by the operators! But it belies a much greater problem. 21st Century technology fighting 12th Century tactics. Throwing more money and technology at it, doesn’t quite work. Smarts trumps money and technology here. Or it should.
Bullets and cannon fire are a lot more available and cheaper than a few $65,000 Hellfires. Review the Spooky and Spectre results in a similar asymmetric war long ago. I will bet the guys back then on the ground, if they had their druthers would opt for the old transports C-47s and C-130s, over and above these new tankers with some Hellfire missiles 40 years later.
Loiter time seems to be a big deal. And indeed it is! In 1945 the first A-1D Skyraider flew. 20 years later it was invaluable in Vietnam, not only for its added weapon load over and above F-4s and A-7s, but because it could loiter for 6 hours above the fight, rather than a mere 20 minutes. And for a SAR, the Sandy’s were salvation! Nothing compared. Ask the guys rescued.
Of course if we do not have air superiority, neither the tanker or the loitering CAS aircraft will be viable. But when have we not had “air superiority?”
While they would today be considered “obsolete,” – and possibly are – if I were a guy on the ground in harms way, I think would far prefer a few Sandies driven by hard-chargers and combat veterans like in the old days, with their awesome and variety of weapon load-out, than a tanker with a few Hellfires covering my 6. How ’bout you?
Over 60 years later, is it not a shame (although the A-10 came close) that we have not developed an airborne weapon to fit this specific mission? If I am under fire on the ground, you can take your expensive remote control contraptions, and give me a grim faced friend flying above me for a few hours, and who carries multiple air-to-ground weapons, and saves my bacon.
Look at all the Spad’s hard-points. It could carry most anything. And a lot of it. So if it worked so well way back then, why do we not have a logical follow-on? (I know why, but that is for another post.)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3cVc42wg9Q&feature=related
Then it’s time to drag out the plans for the A2D Skyshark out, and start making them. They should be able to get a reliable turboprop for them by now.
Just think, Badger, if they’d have listened to you from the start they’d be 3-4 years down the road by now, right!?
I believe Lex’s old squadron, Fist of the Fleet, demonstrated the Spad’s ability to drop a toilet during the SE Asia Unpleasantness:
http://www.midwaysailor.com/midwayva25bomb/
That Skyraider run had me thinking one thing…
How close did he come to getting fragged by his own bombs and/or debris from the explosions. Some seemed pretty dang close.
Hmmm weapons on a tanker? Where else have I seen this? Oh yeah, Super Hornet