Some among the liberal left in this country don’t like guns. Don’t want to have them in the house. For the children. Don’t think you should have them either.
Look at all the crime, they argue. As though that were a reason to be unarmed.
Plus, it allows the Europeans to condescend about America’s “cowboy culture.” When most of all, anti-gun liberals want Europe’s approval.
The problem is that anti-gun activism is a proven political loser. It turns off the constitutionalists who look at the 2nd amendment and say, well: That’s rather clear. It turns off the folks living in neighborhoods edgy and otherwise, who’d like the option to defend their lives and property when the bad man comes. Knowing, as they do, that when the bad man comes and seconds count, the police are only minutes away. It turns off the working class that the liberal left pretends to care for, in a paternalistic way. And of course it turns off gun owners and enthusiasts across the political spectrum, who believe – among other things – that the last defense against tyranny of whatever flavor is an armed populace.
So what do you do, if you don’t like guns and think that they state should have a monopoly not just on organized violence, but personal protection as well?
You send a few thousand untraceable assault weapons down to Mexico, where no one you care about is likely to be killed.
That was just conjecture, until recently. Tin-foil hat stuff.
Now, not so much, according to the noted gun proponents ABC news:
Documents obtained by CBS News show that the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) discussed using their covert operation “Fast and Furious” to argue for controversial new rules about gun sales…
On July 14, 2010 after ATF headquarters in Washington D.C. received an update on Fast and Furious, ATF Field Ops Assistant Director Mark Chait emailed Bill Newell, ATF’s Phoenix Special Agent in Charge of Fast and Furious:
“Bill – can you see if these guns were all purchased from the same (licensed gun dealer) and at one time. We are looking at anecdotal cases to support a demand letter on long gun multiple sales. Thanks.”
–
On Jan. 4, 2011, as ATF prepared a press conference to announce arrests in Fast and Furious, Newell saw it as “(A)nother time to address Multiple Sale on Long Guns issue.” And a day after the press conference, Chait emailed Newell: “Bill–well done yesterday… (I)n light of our request for Demand letter 3, this case could be a strong supporting factor if we can determine how many multiple sales of long guns occurred during the course of this case.”
And then we have the case of US attorney Dennis Burke, refusing to apologize for his part in the fiasco because doing so played into the hands of “willing stooges” of the gun lobby in Congress.
Heretofore I was willing to apply Hanlon’s Razor: “Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.”
Now I believe we have to consider both malice and stupidity.
Lex you left out one thing—”malice and stupidity” doesn’t quite cover it all. Throw in “incompetence”. Holder and the boys at the top were trying to cover up. They couldn’t cover up dog droppings on their neighbor’s lawn.
Was Fast and Furious (aka fouled up and FUBAR)really designed to promote gun control laws? I’m not certain. What is certain is that some folks in the DOJ, including Chicago Machine alumnus and Arizona US Attorney Dennis Burke saw an opportunity to use “FU & BUBAR” to promote gun control laws. And Holder and the Obama Administration did not sit on him to stop that. After all “a crisis is a bad thing to waste”–per St. Rahm Emanuel.
i told you so.
They stacked the deck, rigged the game and preloaded the results……coming out of the Obama administration, this surprises who?
Feckless unethical immoral lying bastards…..no matter who the GOP lines up, they can’t be worse than these lowlifes.
Didja see the NYT article about the Libyan “rebel” captain who came home and lent the AK-47 to the kids to fire celebratory shots into the air. Only on full auto the kid blew away his father and brother. The article turned into a gun control support piece as opposed to a stupid Arab piece.
It’s aways “evil Guns” that kill people…always, regardless of stupid people…BTW, hear about the dog who shot his owner?
They key question is whether any Republican has the guts to prosecute. This isn’t a matter of trying to play legal “gotcha” games over policy disagreements. This is a matter of clear, deliberate violations of Federal firearms laws (and it’s now appearing to extend to money laundering as well), in pursuit of a systematic attempt to violate the civil rights of American citizens.
Prosecute, convict, imprison. Then decide whether the Democrat Party should face RICO actions.
How about: extradite. Wouldn’t it be better if they spent the rest of their lives in a Mexican prison?
May we just shoot them a bit?
“Some among the liberal left in this country don’t like guns. Don’t want to have them in the house. For the children. Don’t think you should have them either.”
Regarding “the covert operation ‘Fast and Furious’” Americans would do well to compare the clear, uninterpreted-by-latter-day-lawyers, intent of the 2nd amendment with our Tsarist administration.
What possible U.S. government agenda could ever legitimize such an extreme operation? Could ‘Term Two Tyranny’ be far behind?
Founders were thinking of their children, and we must be no less rigorous in thinking of ours.
Never attribute to unlikely coincidence that which can be explained by dishonest people in pursuit of an agenda.
Obama and Holder had been lying about the number of illegal US guns in Mexico for quite some time before O:F&F was switched to high gear…
Coincidence? Never thought so, myself.
Wag the Dog II.
Not to go from zero to Godwin in nothing flat, but I think Reichstag Fire is a better analogy.
It seems very clear that at least one branch of our government and probably several others have conspired in
criminal actions to subvert the 2nd amendment of our constitution. That is, they actively worked to destroy the supreme law of
our land.
I believe that all of the participants in Fast & Furious swore an oath to preserve and protect the constitution?
Rather clearly, they are all in breach of that sworn oath.
All participants should be fired, prosecuted and incarcerated. (By sheriff Joe Arpaio) Further, all of their fat government retirements and other benefits should be forfeit. Resigning and having it all go away should never be an option.
Roger
+100!
So much for the part about “against all enemies, foreign and domestic,” right? Unless, of course, the Administration gets to label “the enemy.”
I’m starting to bust out with the tinfoil hat, liking I’m going to go calibrate somebody’s radar, but I’ve had a serious realization.
I’m convinced, more than ever, that Obama is some kind of Manchurian candidate whose sole purpose is to take down the United States. He’s not a uniter. He’s a destroyer.
How so?
- His Middle East foreign “policy.” We burned Mubarak and now Egypt is on the verge of becoming an Islamist state. So is Turkey. Lebanon is basically Hezebollah’s home state. Syria, after Assad is thrown out, will go Islamist too. Bahrain’s U.S.-friendly regime is under assault. We’re looking at nearly every Arab regime that was once friendly to us flipped to anti-American. It’s five or six Carter-era Irans. You can’t tell me that their encouragement of the “Arab Spring” and minimizing of the “Green Revolution” wasn’t on purpose.
- The Fast and Furious debacle proves that this guy is probably the most Machivellian man to sit in the White House. He and his minions believe in doing anything, anything to get rid of the Second Amendment. It’s a threat to them. Shipping off a few “long guns” to drug gangs in Mexico and blaming dealers for letting the guns get across the border is no big deal to these folks.
- The Democrats have failed to even pass a budget in three years. Three years! We’re up to our eyeballs in debt. Yet…he wants MORE spending. He’s spent more money than has existed in the history of the world. We’ll never pay this back. Our finances are nearing an implosion. Yet, will we reform entitlements? Nah. Full speed ahead, over the cliff!
Often times I’ve thought, “this guy is stupid.” No. He’s got a plan. And it ain’t a good one.
And the GOP is too stupid or complicit to stand in his way. They’re either so afraid of their own shadows or afraid of being called a “racist” that they won’t do what needs to be done: call him and his cronies into account for this, Solyndra, Lightsquared, the vaccine case, etc. etc. etc.
We’re doomed. If he gets re-elected, we can kiss this country, as we knew it, goodbye. It’ll sink financially. Crime will quintuple. The government, ever-more-oppressive, will be everywhere and in everybody’s gumbo pot. It will be a pure Hell on Earth.
I hate to sound nuts, but everything I read about this guy just scares the dickens out of me.
Amen brother.
He doesn’t have to be evil. The operators of Chernobyl didn’t set out to scatter their core over the countryside, they just had a flawed mental model of how the reactor worked. As a result their actions did not have the consequences they intended.
If you listen to Obama you realize that he, like every other liberal, does not understand economics at a fundamental level. Whether it’s Obama failing to understand the relationship between innovation and employment (ATM’s cause unemployment) or Krugman thinking destroying wealth is stimulative (WWII ended the Great Depression and 9/11 will boost the economy) there is a mismatch between how they think the world works and how it actually works.
That’s why he keeps taking vacations and golfing, and why he’s become so short-tempered lately. He’s frustrated.
I propose changing his title from POTUS to VOTUS. “Vacationer of the US.”
In talking to civil rights opponents (which is how I prefer to name them, it gives people pause to align themselves with those who oppose civil rights), I end up focusing on two issues.
One is that of “when seconds count, the police are only minutes away”. Their proposition is that the proper response is a passive defense; alarm systems to frighten away the bad guys, locked safe rooms the bad guys can’t get into, etc. The idea that it’s legitimate and even desirable to cause the bad guy harm or even death is seen as barbaric. See England for that idea taken to it’s limits, where a burglar can sue a victim if the victim harms them. I also wonder if the concept that an active defense also brings yourself into risk figures into this.
The second is that of resistance to tyranny. “Oh, that’s outdated. There’s no way that’s an issue in the present day.” Push it and you start hearing them talk about the “citizen militias” running around in the north woods and get regarded by them as an incipient nut case. Those who run the government and favor supremacy of government power over individual liberty certainly don’t want you to be able to adequately resist it.
I’ve heard it stated that “O.K., if you want to live by the 2nd Amendment, then you should only have a right to those firearms that existed when it was enacted.” After all, when the 18th Century founders wrote the 2nd Amendment, they couldn’t have possibly forseen the invention of the kinds of arms we have today. They think these men primitive and simple. I invite them to read about the lives of Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin, two of the most prolific inventors this country has ever seen. I hold the opposite view. The 2nd Amendment was written when all citizens could own the same arms that the world’s armies had – so in order to be able to uphold the primary function of the 2nd Amendment, we should STILL be able to own such. Every man his own AK-47 or M-16. Or Ma Deuce, if you prefer ….
Right on, and Swiss Army vets make a superb, modern example!
I am pretty sure that the police had the same sort of thing in mind when they called on me long ago to warn me about violence which is why I have a 22 to scare them a 32 to warn them and a 45 to blow their heads off.
while I was citing the most utterly dangerous police in the world that was back in the grand days. I happened to be sharing a hotel room in Korea back when a disturbed person went berserk and stole a tank. Never stood a chance.
not the police, the other bad guys.
As far as “they couldn’t have possibly forseen the invention of the kinds of arms we have today” goes, every workable automatic weapon method had been discussed as early the the mid 1600s in presentations before the Royal Society by a James Puckle (1718 patent for a revolver-type action), Palmer (1663, paper discussing both gas and recoil-operated mechanisms) and others. They just had to wait for technology to catch up.
I’d be surprised if Jefferson, at least, didn’t have at least a passing acquaintance with some of these ideas.
Where the “let’s restrict allowable tech to the flintlock” enthusiasts fall down is failing to understand just how easy it is to manufacture modern firearms with, say, a high-school metal shop. And semi- (or full-) auto weapons are easier to build than a revolver.
When I first started tinkering with firearms design, at about age 11, I quickly realized that it is easier to build a machine gun than a semi-auto. To build a SA, you have to add parts to an MG to interrupt its cycle till the release of the trigger.
Mike
It is noteworthy that the Puckle gun featured the option of barrels and chambers for round bullets for shooting at Christians, or a different set for square bullets for shooting at Muslims.
Not only that, but if you WERE to walk down the street with your sword on your hip and a pair of single-shot pistols in your pockets – as was perfectly legal and acceptable in 1790 – these civil rights opponents would demand your arrest. Or murder out of hand.
What they are pushing is a 50/50 mix of snobbery and stupidity.
“The 2nd Amendment was written when all citizens could own the same arms that the world’s armies had – so in order to be able to uphold the primary function of the 2nd Amendment, we should STILL be able to own such. Every man his own AK-47 or M-16. Or Ma Deuce, if you prefer ….”
The Bill of Rights was put in to protect the citizen from the government and as such I expect access to some decent fire power! Fortunately I live in a state that allows me to own such nice toys. Unfortunately because of the NFA of 1986 they are prohibitively expensive. For those that don’t know, the federal law prohibits select fire/full auto fire arms manufactured after 1986 in civilian(private) ownership. So what is on the market is over priced. As an example, I want to add a 1918 BAR to my collection. They run $16,000-$24,000 depending on condition. I have come across a couple of 1919′s as well, they start at $28,000. Of course that does not include the cost of feeding and upkeep. I haven’t bothered to price an M2 but I do know they are available. Also, before the NFA of 1934(even back then, Chicago politics was screwing the rest of us) you could walk in to you’re local hardware store a buy a Thompson. The Thompson, which buy the way, run about $10,000 now. No background check. No questions.
Ahhh, Ma Deuce. Just because the govt. says I can’t have one (or has priced them out of reach) doesn’t mean I don’t want one.
A forward mounted M2 in my VW for the left lane slowpokes and a rear mounted for the tailgaters. I could dream up a lot more
uses for such a great old warhorse. God bless John Browning!
Nah, for forward-firing, you want something which shoots a sizable HE projectile. You want to blow the whole thing off the road so you won’t have to drive around the wreck. Aim for under the bumper, just inboard of his starboard aft tire. With some luck, the doofus might even survive.
Those who think they’re smarter than you (and certainly smarter than those poor, foolish and patriotically unsophisticated people in the armed forces) figure that it would be best if you couldn’t stop them from telling you what to do.
All mass murder in America and many other countries happens in gun free zones.
And we’re to believe that they can keep guns away from criminals when they can’t keep heroin, coke, meth, and crack away from 12 year old children.
The stupidity of the citizen supporters of such nonsense, is deafening.
This anti-gun nonsense may not make it into even harsher laws but it can scare property owners. My apartment building is in a formerly high-crime area and the housing contract prohibits keeping guns in the building. Never mind that several people in the complex are retired or current military or that law abiding residents may want to protect themselves, the management associates guns with gangsters instead of the forces of order (a great term borrowed from the French).
This doesn’t just impact laws, a lot of us get stuck with stupid restrictive policies imposed by private companies as well.
There are people here in WI, that even want to take away the guns from us piggy-wigs. UW River Falls PD is unarmed, because the Dean believes that armed police are intimidating. UW River Falls is 29 miles from Minneapolis-St. Paul, so you can see thatthere is no danger that any of those officers will ever come in contact with anyone who would want to do him harm. I shall keep my HK USP45F on my Bat Belt, and my S&W M&P 15 in the truck.
The shocking thing about all of this is that our president, during a visit to Mexico in 2009, said this:
“I will not pretend that this is Mexico’s responsibility alone. The demand for these drugs in the United States is what’s helping keep these cartels in business,” Mr. Obama said at a joint news conference with Mr. Calderon. “This war is being waged with guns purchased not here, but in the United States. More than 90 percent of the guns recovered in Mexico come from the United States, many from gun shops that line our shared border.”
From gun shops. Paid for with our tax dollars. Did we tell Mexico about this destabilizing “sting” operation? Nah. Did we track the guns? Nah?
If this scandal doesn’t rise to the level of an impeachable offense, I don’t know what does. If the GOP leadership has any statesman-like qualities, they’ve got to see this investigation, one of the most important investigations in the history of the republic, through to the very end. No shortcuts. No Potomac two-step.
There’s no doubt this was for political gain. There’s no doubt in my mind. I just hope there is a way to trace it up the chain and find that Eric Holder and Obama knew about this. If they did, Obama must be impeached if there is to be any further accountability in government. If not, the rule of law here is dead and buried and we’re well on our way to a banana republic.
Deeee-yo! Deeeeee-yo!
Did we tell Mexico about this destabilizing “sting” operation?
This. For a moment, lets go with the progressive (don’t call these people liberals, not that progressive is much better) argument that getting rid of the 2nd Amendment is good. At what point does the progressive mindset find it acceptable to destabilize a foreign country by providing criminals with firearms? This one fact alone should make this issue an easy bipartisan concern. I find the refusal to even acknowledge the violation of Mexico’s governance to be very telling of the true intent of progressives.
It will not happen at the ballet box, it will not happen after the election, it will happen when we are set apon by the unprepared.
An invasion by a forign power, at our current strength, we can only hope we go down swinging.
Three days a week I load for barter.
Be prepared to laugh and cry at the same time.
A liberal tries to explain why she wants to make gun ownership illegal.
http://youtu.be/84ptFVq22PY
Wow. That was some ending to that clip.
…sometimes you have to die for something I believe in…
That pretty much sums them up, doesn’t it.
Yup.
Deep within the heart of a liberal is a still, quiet voice that tells them what you should be doing…
Lex hits the ball out of the park!
Just this past Monday we lived the idea that when seconds count the police are minutes away.
We got a phone call from our State Police Barracks – a recorded call that went to everyone in our small town. There had been a bank robbery a few towns away and one of the criminals was in our town. He had ditched his car at the high school – putting it in lockdown – and was being pursued in town. We were given a description and told to stay indoors.
We live less than 3 miles from all this.
I was away at a friend’s house a few miles away. I was due home about 30 minutes after the call came in. Our home is in the middle of the woods – literally. Lots of deep dark spaces around us for a criminal to evade capture and hide. With our home a shining beacon in the middle of it all.
The Oracle greeted me when I came home – after a well-timed call from me – with a cocked-and-locked .45acp in his hand. We remained indoors with that pistol at hand until we went to bed.
Gave us so much comfort to know that we could defend ourselves in our own home from the potential threat of a violent criminal.
I am reminded of the late, great Charlton Heston: from my cold dead hands.
There are enough felonies in this to send them all to jail. Holder could be prosecuted for lying to Congress, if nothing else. Everyone who knew, before or after the action, is involved in the conspiracy. It’s past time to start bringing charges, then let the little fish cut deals to give up their bosses and see how high this really goes. Because this stinks worse than your post suggests. There are already a couple of hundred dead Mexican nationals, a dead Border Patrol agent, and hundreds of weapons still unaccounted for.
The purpose of this was to be able to point to weapons in Mexico and use it as an excuse to further restrict the freedoms of Americans. That makes it a Constitutional issue, an impeachable offense. Here’s C-Span video from 2009, where Deputy Attorney General David Ogden announces Project Gun Runner (Fast and Furious) as launched under the orders of President Barack Obama with the knowledge of Attorney General Eric Holder.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PNhYk9NuNc
Scooter Libby wasn’t available for comment, nor was Duke Cunningham….but I guess the lesser crime is the one that causes the greater violence in the eyes of The WON!
Following the theme of “when seconds count…” this is an account of an Ohio incident in 1995.
http://www.savedbyagun.com/our_story.html
I remember that as I was living in Ohio at the time. The Police acted terribly in the matter, as they usually do in these incidents in Ohio.
Central Ohio cops are pretty Left wing and don’t like us mundanes to shoot crooks. Where I was County Engineer the Sheriff would have congratulated me on the kill and patted me on the back. If it took more than one round, the Prosecutor would have asked why it took so many shots and recommended some remedial range time.
But, then, SE Ohio is populated with families who were southern refugees after the War Of Northern Aggression.
I used to know a guy from Gallipolis, and, yep.
Holder seems to have really beclowned himself at the hearing yesterday. You wouldn’t know it, to read the papers.
Dammit, why could not the imminent collapse have occurred forty years ago? I am too old to play infantry! (Well, maybe rear guard, if sufficiently peeved to be indifferent to my probable fate)
My prediction…
Look for “civil unrest with violence” in July 2012(ish). Then they can start talk of “postponing” the elections until it is “safe” for voters.
Nope, I don’t have a tinfoil hat on. They don’t sell materials with lead in them to me anymore.
The Tampa Mayor, Bob Buckhorn, has already indicated he expects anarchists for the RNC gig. He also stated they are violent people (on the news this AM)…his descriptor, not mine. Sounds like some opportunities for citizen journalism. Maybe I can hire Byron to come play personal bouncer…