US cyber experts are cautious about Iranian claims in yesterday’s CSM that they jammed the GPS signals of the RQ-170 drone and inserted new geolocation data to lure the asset to a crash landing:
First, Iran would need to spot the stealth drone. Second, it would need to jam the encrypted GPS signal. Third, it would have to substitute a false signal that the internal systems on the drone could understand and obey.
US experts say even the first task – spotting the drone – would be very difficult for Iran.
“The weak point in the Iranian argument is how they detected the drone in the first place, which I find implausible given the existing quality of their air-defense system, which is not sufficiently sophisticated to detect it,” says Dennis Gormley, a University of Pittsburgh expert on unmanned air systems, including cruise missiles and drones, who also worked in the intelligence community. “Their air defenses are of a type that doesn’t have the ability to detect a low-cross-section vehicle like the RQ-170.”
Locating a stealth drone operating at perhaps 40,000 feet would stretch even Russia and China, which have far more sophisticated radar defense systems, he says.
GPS jamming is a known vulnerability. But that’s all I’m going to say about that. And that image that Iran is broadcasting? Hmm.
Something about all of this is not quite right.
What?!?! Iran might not be telling the truth? Shocked! SHOCKED, I am!
The weird thing that has been nagging about me on this — in none of the “Beast of Kandahar” pictures that leaked out a couple years ago did the airplane have a green tint.
And those photos indicated a larger airplane, I think.
Wouldn’t the duct tape holding the wings on roughly double its radar cross section??
If memory serves, the story is that the Iranians cut off the wings to make the craft truck-transportable.
Not that I want to believe Iran . . . BUT: there are a number of ‘assumptions’ implicit in the statements made about how Iran could not have done this. Wouldn’t it be better to look into their receiving help from Russia or China in detecting the drone? How about a helping hand from the same sources, or others(?) who might have an interest in the technology, in the software challenges, too?
I’d hope that the drones are hardened against this kind of thing, but the biggest vulnerability I can think of is (the foolish) assumption that they cannot do what they then do. Underestimation of our enemies’ capabilities would not be a new problem nor one unique to us.
Beyond this, why oh why do we not have a contingency plan in place to destroy such assets when compromised?? We spend unbelievable sums to develop this kind of capability and then give it away to opponents. Stupid.
The Iranians have a history of overstating their abilities. Remember their “stealth fighter”?
There are reports out on the web saying that physical security of these drones is a high priority, and that self destruct systems (I.e blow the wings off) will trigger after loss of command signal for a certain period of time.
Detecting the drone calls for more than just some advisors. You would need advanced radars and processing systems. Things that China and Russia would be loath to let out of their country, even to get a look at the drone. And while GPS jamming may not be terribly difficult spoofing flight commands is a whole different kettle of fish.
All this has me leaning toward Trojan. We meant for the Iranians to get this.
I was just going to ask if this might be a Trojan Horse.
Roger that…….sent to make them feel they got the ” real deal ”
It all seems too easy that they could hope to capture this slippery bird…..
Just because we think they can’t detect it, doesn’t mean they actually can’t. We can stick our noses in the sand, but we have classified programs, too, and the Iranians know that stealth aircraft are one of the United States’ biggest strengths. It makes perfect sense for them to have spent years in research in trying to detect them.
With that said, though, it wouldn’t make sense for them to blow their wad on a single drone. Something still doesn’t add up.
Another site has multiple photos with some interesting observations:
1. No doorway large enough to get it inside the gym it sits in
2. Chunks of styrofoam discarded in the background as if they just carved up pieces
3. Seams that do not match the actual craft
4. And just my opinion, it just doesn’t look right. Looks like a mock up
And the way they taped skirting on makes it appear it pranged hard and they just pieced it together with additional styrofoam pieces, sprayed it, and said look what we have!
Lets see now…. Iranian claims.
They have a Stealth Fighter:
Shows a model mock-up that is not even a flyable plane much less a stealth plane.
Their stealth drone shadows and records US Carrier operations:
Footage proves nothing, in all likelihood the US was fully aware of the (non)stealthy drones presence and did not bother to do anything about it as they were in international waters. They were not able to record anything you couldn’t get from watching Top Gun.
IRG naval forces detects and shadows US Submarine in gulf:
Video shows a Periscope mast with rounded scope fairing, Ours is flat. Sub is almost garaunteed that it’s a Kilo Class on a photo op with surface forces. Claims of it being a US sub us utter BS.
Iran claims to have the very deadly SSN-22 Sunburn missile (P250 Moskit):
Video of test is CLEARLY a Silkworm missile and NOT the Sunburn. Silkworm being a Chinese knock-off of the venerable Soviet SS-N-2 Styx missile with a bigger fuel tank. Nothing all that scary about the silkworm at all. we can jam or destroy them with easy, Only real danger from them is getting caught unawares (a real possibility given past history a la USS Stark)
Iranian website releases footage of the Hezbollah firing the Sunburn missile to destroy an Israeli Destroyer:
Still images are taken from a very popular, well known and distributed viral video of an Australian TORPEDO test. Image is of a Mk-48 being detonated beneath the keel of the decommed HMAS Torrens.
Iran’s propaganda track record is a gorram joke. Only the seriously moronic could ever fall for anything they claim.
Unfortunately the world is filled with Morons.
What I’d like to know is why don’t these drones have self destruct devices? Something that could be triggered by an encrypted signal. After all they must expect to lose the occasion drone. Even on our manned sub we had that big metal box down the the ER.
Agreed.
I bet that was a pretty big Ah SH**! moment when they realized it was going into Iran and crashing and they forgot to include the Big red “Push in case of Emergency” Button.
They do, its called the ground. You’d fly it into the dirt as steep as possible and make little pieces out of it, which is the same thing as blowing it up. And if they can grab it and take control to land it smoothly, they can obviously disable a self-destruct.
I am loath to attribute to Iran that much smarts when these things already fall out of the sky for far more pedantic reasons. The DHS MQ-9 that crashed years ago accidentally has its engine secure in flight (human error compounded by heinous human factors), and then gently descended while the autopilot ensured it kept flying. When it lost link it turned to home and headed back, eventually touching down in a gentle descent.
Steve, I believe you are right that we should never underestimate our enemies. However, though rather shy about the subject, we definitely put a lot of time and effort into building a detailed understanding of our enemies capabilities. Their ability in the EW world especially, and who may help them, doesn’t go unnoticed. I think it’s a fair assertion, therefore, that they probably couldn’t, and didn’t “bring down” this drone.
It’s pretty obvious to me that they aren’t showing the undercarriage for a reason, and that it looks duct-taped together. Which, if it were in a glide profile upon landing, would make sense. But I’m no expert.
I’m afraid we limited our possible responses, namely calling it a fake, by asking for it back. And there is the loss of face, which isn’t great. Something doesn’t add up indeed.
That intake alone would have the radar signature of an Amana
Frige.With the same Aerodynamics.I was talking to an old friend the day a retired Engineer for the Skunk Works,
mainly and a stint at ..er, never mind.). He says it is clearly a staged attempt at whatever. Now they may have gotten lucky and shot one down or a malfunction occurred and they got bits and pieces out of the smoking hole in the ground, but damn little useful even if there was material stealth tech, it will take months if not years to back engineer-even for the Chinese or Russians, let alone Iran..
He says:”Yes there are precautions against capture.”
Whatever that means..
I was reading this site, and others, and when I clicked on the comments, the CV was replaced with the Xmas Hornet, which startled me. Shouldn’t the Christmas Hornet have a shiney red nose?
Christmas Hornet?
Maybe it has a shiny infrared nose.
Where’s Olive?
In the Oil King’s shack.
For shiney please read shiny.
That “drone” is not the RQ-170. It’s not even a drone. Compare the leading edge of the RQ-170 and that of the thing that Achmedinnerjacket claims to have downed. Not sure what the US is up to, playing along with this silly event. Makes them US look silly.
That “drone” is not the RQ-170. It’s not even a drone. Compare the leading edge of the RQ-170 and that of the thing that Achmedinnerjacket claims to have downed. Not sure what the US is up to, playing along with this silly event. Makes the US look silly.
That “drone” is not the RQ-170. It’s not even a drone. Compare the leading edge of the RQ-170 and that of the thing that Achmedinnerjacket claims to have downed. Not sure what the US is up to, playing along with this silly event. Makes the US look silly.
http://documentary.darkgovernment.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/U.S._RQ-170_on_display_in_Iran.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/54/RQ-170_Wiki_contributor_3Dartist.png
Not that I for an instant believe anything out of Iran but let us recall what hyper power used its super advanced air defense systems to shoot down an F-117.
Probably with one of their many inflatable tanks. Fighter planes running into runaway inflatable tanks at 2000 feet AGL. Well, it doesn’t happen everyday.