A UK frigate and a French destroyer were a part of a US-led flotilla which entered the Arabian Gulf late last month, in defiance of Iranian threats. Today the UK Daily Telegraph reports that the international flavor of the force was, well – forced:
Defence sources have revealed that the Americans only relented and allowed a Royal Navy frigate to join the mission following an intervention from Nicolas Sarkozy, the French president.
The revelation that US defence chiefs saw little military value in UK participation will raise new questions about Britain’s international clout after Coalition defence cuts.
Amid rising tensions in the region, the Royal Navy last month deployed HMS Argyll, a Type 23 frigate, to the Gulf.
The ship accompanied a US carrier strike group made up of an aircraft carrier with a full complement of fighters, a heavy cruiser and several destroyers.
A French frigate, the La Motte-Picquet, was also part of the flotilla which sailed through the Straits of Hormuz. Iran has staged wargames in the area and threatened to block the straits, a vital supply route for oil exports…
The disparity in vessel numbers means the British and French presence in the flotilla was of greater diplomatic than military significance.
It didn’t feel that way back in 2003, when the ship on which I had the honor to serve upon in the same waters was for a time guarded by a Royal Navy air defense destroyer, and we were right glad to have her.
Times change, I suppose.
Obama hates the Brits because they tossed his grandfather in jail. That attitude rubs off on flags with their lips pressed firmly upon his backside.
I am always proud to see the White Ensign in formation with the First Navy Jack. Don’t understand why the Brits would have to ask, the invitation should be open – any time, any place.
One hopes that if the Falklands comes to blows again that we’ll be riding shotgun; though with the current leadership…
I thought HMS Argyll was off to the sunny Falklands? How many Argylls do they have?
Not enough that’s for sure. However in this case Argyll is I assume still somewhere around the Gulf whilst heading towards the Falklands at some point is Dauntless (again of which we don’t have enough as the order for twelve T45s became eight became six and I feel lucky we have even that many) which is replacing Montrose.
How many Argylls do they have?
At least two. Don’t all socks come in pairs?
j/k
Honestly, as others have said, Why even a need to ask?
Anytime, Anywhere. That’s how it should be.
Are you in the CG? Were is the CG?
CG-23 was my ship.
Hull Type/Hull Number designation.
USS Halsey CG-23
A Leahy class Guided Missile Cruiser.
I was an EW (Electronic warfare tech)in the Navy.
She was decommed in 94 and held at Suisun Bay (Mothball Fleet) til they chose to scrap her for razor blades. Part of Slick Willy Clinton’s cutting the Navy to (and through) the bone.
Were in – sorry
“Don’t all socks come in pairs?”
You DO realize, don’t you, that you should be shot like a dog and left for dead like the miserable cur that you are for that one..
PS: You know what happens to punsters, don’t you CG-23 Sailor? PUNishment..
We’re sending HMS Dauntless to the Falklands, along with HRH Prince William. The Gaucho’s don’t like either – (“`ing provocative if you ask me, sending a search and rescue pilot and his old Sikorsky/Sea King, how dare we?)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Dauntless_%28D33%29
Perhaps we should have sent the old Type 23 Argyll there instead of the aforementioned state of the art destroyer. Perhaps….
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/9062781/Hague-insists-Prince-Williams-deployment-to-Falklands-is-routine.html
I was puzzled about yet another slap in the British face. Then I woke out of my daydream and realized that my beloved brethren in the US Navy leadership are simply kowtowing to their avowed civilian masters. May they be judged for that.
TC
I, too, was greatly puzzled. Especially knowing that one of the Navy’s priorities (in fact, I believe its highest) is diversity. Then it dawned on me that the Brits may not be diverse enough in the right way. However, had the Kenyan Navy offered up one of their mightiest ships, I suspect that it would have been welcomed with open arms (or whatever term is used by the sea-going types).
Regards,
Mick
“However, had the Kenyan Navy offered up one of their mightiest ships, I suspect that it would have been welcomed with open arms”
The pride of the Kenyan Navy:
Shupavu Class large patrol boats
Built in Spain
Built to civilian standards in 1997 and entered service in 1997. Armed with a 76mm and a 30mm gun in Kenya.
P6129 KNS Shujaa
P6130 KNS Shupavu
In my quite dated experience, the UK surface combatant’s Ops room teams were all very sharp. If I were steaming into potential danger, I’d welcome the RN to the battle-group. I found the French surface combatants were more uneven, but they used our NTDS link and symbology with the best of them.
Analysis of the decision is that the USN and USA leadership are not serious about a potential error in risk estimation. I hope the individual COs and TAOs are alive to the need for self-defense can trump restrictive ROEs.
Courtney exercised with a French Diesel sub once, and they were pretty good.
I’m a bit torn. Combined ops always increase friction of operations, and should be minimized if possible. On the other hand, you don’t want to pick a fight with one of your few allies that’s both reliable and has strategic reach.
Lets ask the crew of USS Missouri if they were glad for the company of HMS Gloucester on the morning of 23 February, 1991.
I am sure they were very thankful for the presence of our closest and strongest Ally
CG-23, that little piece of goalkeeping was hardly mentioned in the press. I only found out because a guy who joined the police and came onto my unit, after leaving the RN, was part of the WEO’s(weapons engineering officer) team on HMS Gloucester. We love the Big Mo`.
I learned of the HMS Gloucester defending USS Missouri because a shipmate of mine, Before he struck EW and was sent to us, was an unrated Seaman aboard Missouri at the time. He was the Aft lookout.
Two missiles were fired. The first crossed the fantail of Missouri without impact or detonation (In my opinion as an EW, I think they fired with incorrect settings and the terminal Homing radar did not activate until it passed the ship) My Shipmate said it came across the deck by mear feet. Had someone been standing there, the missile would have hit them.
The Second Missile was engaged by Gloucester with her Sea Dart system and was brought down several hundred yards short of the ship.
According to him, the most interesting side note to come of the incident was the crews utter contempt for the XO and Navigator at the time. Apparently when the word went out to brace for impact, they both screamed like girls and fought each other for right of place beneath the chart table. LOL
I’ve also heard (anecdotal, so I don’t know if true) but apparently another US ship also attempted to engage one or both missiles with Mk-15 Phalanx CIWS, only to have a number of rounds impact the Missouri. No injuries and minimal damage, Just lots of pot holes in her 16″ Armor belt.
I have heard that the early CIWS had the acronym stand for, Captain, It Won’t Shoot!
There were issues back in the day where C-wiz would get confused and reset back to “Present Arms”. Some of the work we did at Threat Simulation during the mid-80′s was intent on resolving the system problems. Running the system with “Otto” at the controls was very risky business, requiring a live body monitoring and ready to take action. Rumor has it things got fixed, but who believes rumors?
My understanding was that the early model CIWS had something like a 20% downtime for maintenance, fleet-wide
CG-23 Sailor
Yes, ISTR that the CIWS own goals on the Big Mo were the main reason the entire incident was underplayed, like a few others that never made the press. My understanding is that the CIWS rounds hit officer staterooms, empty due to GQ. One rumor was the Nav’s stateroom was hit, but I discounted it at the time.
StB, CIWs seems to have offed a larger number of PACE instructors than random chance would allow. CIWS PAC Fires had a bad rep for a few years back in the distant past.
C School for the CIWS was at dry side 32nd St naval Station, Sandy Eggo. When I was homeported there we heard that all the students and a few instructors were busted. They were using the Optical backup tracking system to RECORD women in the rooms across the way at the barracks building. All rooms got outfitted with heavy blackout curtains and hundreds of hours of tape confiscated.
Only a fool would do anything bue actively work to increase the number of nations involved in a show of force for a free transit of sea lanes demonstration.
Sadly, we are ruled by a fool who hates the Brits as much as he hates his own country.
I think it’s safe to say TheOneWhoWon has a serious ax to grind w/ the Brits. But for him to not want the RN’s help w/ the Iranian situation has all sorts of downsides, not the least of which is losing the help of some real pros in what could be a hairy situation. I’m getting really, really sick of how this admin has stomped on the once-special relationship. I don’t think he cares that the repercussions of his short sidedness & stupidity will far outlast his term.
Can’t help but think this is why the Argies are getting frisky, may be their only chance for a while..
question about Nimitz carriers, what’s the fence-looking thing that hangs off the stern?
Drop lights? If that’s what you’re after, they help the pilot with centerline control, since they form a visible angle if he’s off to one side or another on approach.
If you are referring to what I think you are, Aboard Kitty Hawk (Not a Nimitz class I know) we had a boat dock back there that could be lowered like a ramp for use in ports where the harbor draft was too shallow to bring the carrier all the way in to the piers. I don’t know if that is the same structure I see on the Nimitz class (looks different but same location)
http://i54.tinypic.com/fq7t5.jpg
You’re talking about right at the water line and above to the fantail (where the Jet Maintenance shop is located) right?
thanks, yep i’ve wondered about that for a while. thanks for that bit of knowledge. so it’s like a bumper and a lowering ramp for liberty boats?
here is a better Hi Res image.
Rather than a lowerable ramp like on Kitty Hawk, here it looks to be more like a bumper fence so that Liberty boats and other support vessels can come in close.
Note two Bumper Buoys stowed to either side as well as the personnel egress ramps behind the fence.
http://www.navy.mil/management/photodb/photos/110831-N-QY430-002.jpg
Here is another Hi Res image showing a Barge in position against the bumper fence as well as the personnel doors open behind it.
http://www.navy.mil/management/photodb/photos/110830-N-ZC343-533.jpg
More salt in the open wound opened up by WunWhoWon after he took office, and all for an imagined personal affront. His Grandfather was rightfully imprisoned. I’m with those above, since when does the RN need our permission to tag along or go where they please?
Am I the only one who thinks our next President is going to have to make his own apology tour? While he’s in London he should ask for the bust of Churchill back, then epoxy the thing to the damn mantle when he gets home.
Epoxy! Yes indeed!
As a former member of the armed forces I must admit my admiration for the Royal Navy was somewhat reduced after the capture of British sailors by the Iranians, a quite disgraceful episode.
However, no force is without its share of numpties so reading CG-23 Sailor’s account of HMS Gloucester’s action defending the Missouri (which I hadn’t heard of) somewhat rebalances that.
I don’t expect we will get any help over the ‘Malvinas’ as Hilary Clinton calls the Falklands but I won’t hold that against the Americans or their armed forces. If only the politicians had the guts of our respective armed forces.
Ditto re the Iranian rib incident. They would’ve most likely had a very different result if they’d tried that with 3 Para or 42 Commando, or D Squadron, or zzzzzzzz
I still have mixed feelings about what you limeys did to the USS Phoenix. AKA the General Belgrano.
I swing back and forth. She went through the whole Pacific war. For a time circa 1942 she was the only light cruiser in the Pac, and Admirals Halsey and Nimitz wanted her but she was in MacArthur’s Navy and he wasn’t in a mood to share. Commonwealth forces sailed with her, if not the RN itself.
Then you guys sank her.
I’m leaving out a few details about what happened in between, I know.
But on the plus side she didn’t get turned into razor blades, and by all rights she should have been a museum piece but she ended her days as a warship.
Yet ANOTHER in a LONG LINE of reasons to re-locate the Duck Blind..
Multilateralism at its best
/snark
The RN is pretty well down to Gideon’s selectees by now.
Very, very few and very, very good at what they do. Their ships are nowhere as good as their officers and “other ranks”, but what little they have they know how to use.
RAF and Brit’s Army, dunno. Royal Marines, very good, and just a raiding force (pretty much the meaning of “Commando” – another testament to the quality of the USMC high command in 1941-44.)
Decisions have long consequences, sometimes.
I guess my comment was lost in the ether, or I’m barred
Rescued from the spam bot!
Not sure if this was in the news your side of the pond:
“Belgrano was ‘fair target’ as it was headed into Falklands exclusion zone and NOT back to port, according to top secret dossier”
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2078749/Belgrano-fair-target-headed-Falklands-exclusion-zone-NOT-port-according-secret-dossier.html
A nasty little war which I was lucky to miss, hand to hand in some cases no different to WWI and II.
It’s not news on this side of the pond. I know the Belgrano was a legitimate target. I just have mixed feelings about how a ship that started life as the USS Phoenix met her end.