CNO had some unwelcome news for the sailors and Marines aboard Wasp:
Putting the best face on a potentially grim future, the Navy’s top officer is telling his sailors that the active fleet will be about the same size in five years as it is now, despite recently announced plans to retire a bunch of ships early and to not build as many new ones as planned.
Adm. Jonathan Greenert, Chief of Naval Operations, told sailors and Marines here that the number of ships in the fleet in 2017 “will be about the same, 285, but it won’t be going up as high as we wanted.”
The Navy has planned for at least 313 ships in the battle fleet for years, and has counted on rapid procurement of the Littoral Combat Ships (LCS) and serial production of the Arleigh Burke destroyers and Virginia-class attack submarines to help reach that number.
But in his preview of the fiscal year 2013 budget, Defense Secretary Leon Panetta said the Navy will retire seven Ticonderoga-classcruisers and two amphibious ships earlier than planned, would remove two LCS and eight Joint High Speed Vessels from the five-year defense budget plan and delay other ship construction starts.
In other, possibly related amphibious news, the Bataan has just returned to Norfolk after 10 1/2 months at sea, the longest deployment for any US warship in 40 years:
Rhaterahmi White can count on two hands – maybe one, even – the number of true days off he’s had since this amphibious assault ship pulled away from Norfolk Naval Station nearly a year ago.
He knows it isn’t many, but asked to put an exact figure on it, he hesitated.
“What do you mean by ‘day off?’ ” he asked, an indication of their rarity for deployed sailors in his profession…
The Bataan was originally set to deploy this past summer, along with the locally based amphibious ships Mesa Verde and Whidbey Island. Instead, they left nearly four months early to help respond to the crisis in Libya. They did it on 14 days’ notice, and among the consequences of such a rushed departure was little time to finish routine maintenance.
“These sailors had to do a lot just to keep the ship running for this extended period,” said the Bataan‘s commanding officer, Capt. Erik Ross. “The epic length of this deployment called for a lot of ingenuity and hard work, on everyone’s part.”
Tired ships, and tired sailors. Some of whom are being RIF’d by the thousands.
Navy had better hope that the economy does not recover to anything like full employment.
Judas H, this is starting to read like some sort of “Grapes of Wrath” for the military.
If we don’t get the FOOL outta the White House, he will revert our military to such a state we will start to look like the Black Sea Fleet unable to go on mission due to the rust on the machine.
We can waste $$$$ on Green Boondoggles and wasteful Unions but not man our Navy…..WTF???
The upcoming election will be a mission to save our nation from this thick headed numbskull who lives in a fantasy land of runaway spending and apologies for our country being the best.
Lord help us.
SK1: Please say what you mean
He always beats around the bush like that. Never can get him to really say what’s on his mind.
At least when he beats around the bush, a beat or three actually smack the bush.
So reminiscent of when Ronnie Ray Gun hired John Lehman to fix similar issues. In all the services, we’ve been beating the tar out of man and machine for too many years in support of 2 wars. Just as in the Carter years, the bill is coming due.
SK1,
You are entirely wrong.
None of this is unintentional. He knows precisely what he is doing, and is on track to meet his goal. A weakened, impotent America, a government-dominated economy, with ultra-powerful labor unions, indoctrination centers in place of schools, and an ultra-left agenda to destroy the free market and redistribute the wealth.
So far, so good. Saul Alinsky would be proud.
+2
I never said it was ” unintentional “. Our goal needs to be to send the Affirmative Action / Food Stamp President packing.
Not that anyone on the GOP is the leader we need but at least they will ensure our nation’s defense is not driven into the ground.
The number of embarrassments in the present administration ( Holder, Geitner, Napolitano, Biden, their ally Pelosi and OBAMA himself) defy logic – How can anyone support this cast of idiots?
Because America is intellectually lazy. And because three generations of American youth have spent 12 years or more being indoctrinated into the Marxist-Leninist philosophies that are public and higher education.
And because the media and Hollywood pound the message like we are in a North Korean POW camp. Morning, noon, and night, until it is repeated back to them robotically.
Rich is evil (except Soros and Michael Moore and Hollywood actors).
Success is due to unfair exploitation, usually of minorities.
Every war, including the GWOT, is either about civil rights or was caused by the Military-Industrial complex.
“Economic justice” is an admirable goal.
It is better to be black than white, female than male, gay than straight.
The only solution to Global Warming, which is REAL despite the massive evidence to the contrary, is the wholesale destruction of Western economies.
And, finally, communism will work, if only WE are in charge.
That’s how.
Don’t forget NHL, AFL, NBA, and other sports league players, owners, etc….who are also rich, and list the Hollywood elites, who, with a pile of money and almost no education, feel capable of discussion the correct manner of diplomatic actions for our nation….yeah, where’s the #occupysuperbowl and #occupyhollywwod and #occupycongress crowd?
Isn’t it more the result of the “sequestration” Congress levied late last year rather than anything the President did or didn’t do.
Nothing new under the sun….
It may have been 40 years but the USS Coral Sea, the USS Midway, and others had 11-month cruises. In fact 8-month cruises back then were considered ‘short’.
Nor is this new: Post conflict, defense budget drawdown.
There are a number of reasons for drawdowns. But the most obvious is the one most overlooked: Without conflict, there would have been no reason for a buildup in the first place. With the conflict ended, there is no longer a reason to continue the buildup.
After our massive buildup and deficit spending for two wars and minor actions over the last decade now coming to a close, maintaining the same and no longer needed high level of defense spending is irrational.
That there needs to be a drawdown is not the question. The question is by how much, and over what period of time.
Post WWII: USN manning decreased from 320,000 to 40,000 within one year!
Post Korea: 13% decline over a few years (small decline because there was little buildup)
Post Vietnam: 32% net USN spending decrease, from 1968 to 1974. USN ships declined from 600 ships in 1968, by 45% in 1977.
Indeed after Vietnam the Navy’s pilot training rate dropped 44% and by over 1,000 pilots annually within five years, while also many already designated aviators were RIFed early.
Post Cold War: DoD manning steadily declined from over 2 million to below 1.5 million over a decade.
So nothing new here, including all the whining and gnashing of teeth. Defense spending is never static nor should it be, ever growing. It is, as it should be, cyclic… and relevant.
“Without conflict, there would have been no reason for a buildup in the first place. With the conflict ended, there is no longer a reason to continue the buildup.”
Largely bullsh*t, Flit. A great deal of the up-front cost was to remedy the incredible damage to readiness and training done by the “acquisition holiday” and the “peace dividend” of Clinton and that legendary warrior Lester Aspin.
I served throughout those years, and the shortfalls in equipment, training, ammunition, maintenance, were scandalous. Making up for them in 2001-2 was a very expensive venture. Had Clinton done the right thing (morally) and taken the recommendations of CJCS Colin Powell and SECDEF Cheney as to appropriate force strength and posture, the massive spending to make up for yet another defense-hating Democrat in the White House would not have been necessary.
“Navy had better hope that the economy does not recover to anything like full employment.”
no chance of that happening either with the SCOAMF getting re-elected or Mittens taking his place, which would just be more of the same.
With the damage the progressive geniuses in Washington have done? It’ll take years to return to where we were in the Summer of ’08.
Well, I’m an older dude and could not work 22 hours a day like some people do on a carrier (according to a recent vid I watched). But there’s got to be some kind of duty that someone like me could do. Frankly, I’d be real interested to sign on and cook or something going into semi-retirement, get paid a bit and take some young person’s place who could do the heavy lifting. I remember a Carrier documentary where a young gal worked around the clock keeping vending machines stocked. That’s a waste of a good person.
And I think it would be a fantastic experience. Bet there are a lot of older folks like me out there.
Kid:
EVERYBODY has to be able to do the heavy lifting. Sooner or later they will have to. Or die, worst case.
And kill a bunch of shipmates.
They don’t call the fire dept, they ARE the fire dept. Everybody. Beware TV “documentaries”.
Mr Bluewater. Respectfully. I’m quite sure there are jobs on board that could be handled by ‘senior staff’, thereby freeing up young strong hands.
When the fit hits the shan, Kid, there is no distinction between young and old. Think USS COLE, which was an ‘All Hands’ effort to save the ship. Gramps has it right, where, in such cases, you are the fire department.
Like you, many of us here are older. We’d all like to believe we’re still up to snuff enough to be in the game, but I meet “kids” everyday who remind me that’s not so. Mind over body is a good thing, but going there 24×7 ain’t likely.
Somebody please tell Mr. Kid about the concept of Serious Business. You want the strongest youngest biggest smartest guys you can find, and even so that might not be enough. All this stuff happens at The Margin, as the economists say.
You want the best guys you can get, of course. You may not get the best guys there are, but you try to get the best guys you can get, and hope that they are good enough.
That includes yerself.
Well, y’all make very good points. Guess that’s why it’s not happening and I stand corrected.
Kid:
To be fair, there are a few who aren’t much help in casualties. They call ‘em Admirals. The training pipeline is longer than you want to think about. Not to mention Promotion Surgeries.
.
A partial answer to budgetary restraints would be to have all the flags count off by tens, send 1-9 home. That way some usefull folks could be retained…maybe take that down to O-6…
Kid has an interesting idea there….no need to burn out developing talent 22-30 hours non-stop.
Hi, guys, I’m back! (found some money to buy a little bit of beer)
Oh, on topic: The Navy should be happy, that unlike the Army, they have not taught lots of their folks proficiency with small arms.
You buy that trampoline yet?
Years ago, when I still thought I had money. It went away with everything else in the storage lockers. I miss the TeeDee .010s and .020s more; you can still get trampolines. And all that 4lb./ft^3 balsa!
Sigh.
They had to resurface the Bataan flight deck at about the 8 month point because the V-22s had burned it off (the engine exhaust points straight at the deck when the aircraft is turning). The deck was de-certified for awhile and flight crews actually had to return to CONUS to get flight currency so the ship could be combat ready. Just some of the little things that happen when you run stuff into the ground.
I started in the Carter Navy. In 1979 you could not find a second class petty officer. If a sharp guy made E5 at the end of his first enlistment, he was soon gone. The squadron had a “dead line”, aircraft there were no parts for. We lost two out of 16 aircraft due to accidents, killing 7 out of the possible 8 aircrew. Deployments were routinely 8 or 9 months. Because I am even dumber than I look, I returned to the same squadron in 1984. It was a completely different place. No dead line. All aircraft (the same BUNOs) operational, the usual gripes but no long term NMCS aircraft. The material means and doctrinal empowerment to perform a dangerous mission safely. And perhaps most importantly, a national leadership and a Commander in Chief who we knew supported us and would do anything for us.
When the Lincoln came back after a 10 month cruise some years ago, George Bush went out to welcome them home and congratulate them on their mission accomplished. That was wildly perverted by a major party who has lost its way and their partisan media into an ignorant buffoon thinking he had won a war that was far from over, instead of what it really was.
Problem is, the current CinC has no such SA on the efforts of the troops he is privileged to command, and would not risk his oh so progressive image with his base to do such a thing anyhow.
As I tried to point out to some of my Internet correspondents who were all enthusiastic for Barry and wanted him elected, the main objection to him has always been that he is really not much of an American, in any important way.
P.s. In the upcoming election, I am going with Jerry Pournelle and voting for whomever the Republicans run, because I know how the Electoral College works. In every other electoral contest, I intend to vote my conscience, even if that means turning in a mostly-blank ballot.
I might have a problem with my conscience when voting for the guys in charge of mosquito control here. In theory, as a libertarian, as a guy who hates FL Real Estate Development, I am against mosquito control.
In practice, when I am sitting among a bunch of folks, and there is one mosquito, well, that little insect c#%t always picks me. Lord, give me strength, and Fl-strength DEET, at that!
And during those 10.5 months the oil didn’t need changing, the tires didn’t need rotating, the anti-freeze didn’t need checking. Ships don’t sail without maintenance. It’s hard to do maintenance when she’s rocking and rolling on the high seas. Does nobody in the swamp know any of this? Nobody at all?? 1/20/2013 can’t come soon enough.
We need more engineers like Florence Ambrose. But then, she’s just a Web Cartoon character, and not even human. The story has it that she is a genetically engineered wolf, but she acts more like a Border Collie, just keeping on doing the work and repairing the ship, in spite of the good-fer-nuthin Space Alien Captain.
There’s even a Sharpsburg joke in there: What’s this? Three cigars wrapped in a piece of plastic?
Freefall really is the most erudite topical philosophical sensible smartassed Webcomic ever, and I wholeheartedly commend it to y’all’s attention. It has lotsa bad engineering jokes, too.
The hardest part of being a Work Center Supervisor is figuring what maintenance on the schedule doesn’t need to be done. The second hardest part was coming up with a reason for deferring the maintenance that the chain of command would buy off on.
As Rickover said: “A man, by working 24 hours a day, could multiply himself 3 times. To multiply himself more than 3 times the only recourse is to train others to take over some of his work.”
Jeff, Flo does much better work than yer average human engineer, being very earnest and very conscientious. Unfortunately, she is a fictitious character in a Web comic.
Ordinary actual humans ain’t anywhere near as virtuous as that.
Only good thing: the sailors on board Bataan weren’t marched directly from the dockside to the unemployment office, as happened to so many who returned from the sandbox.