The Navy’s EOD school gains some:
The phrase “Initial Success or Total Failure” has long served as the unofficial motto of explosive ordnance disposal technicians in the U.S. military.
Until recently, the slogan hung on a wall at the Naval EOD school at Eglin. It was removed after senior EOD leaders decided the words were insensitive.
“It holds some potential insensitivity and implies that our fallen and wounded EOD warriors have somehow failed,” said Joy Samsel, deputy public affairs officer at Naval Education and Training Command in Pensacola. “We don’t want to do that to families.”
Samsel said the EOD school has never had an official motto and has no plans to adopt one.
Rear Adm. Michael Tillotson, commander of the Navy Expeditionary Combat Command, took issue with the slogan and said that “to imply that failure is an option is unacceptable.”
Explosive ordnance disposal is an exceptionally stressful and rigorous profession, and those that have chosen that path are truly our nation’s unsung heroes over the last decade. But the truth of their profession is this: If you succeed at your task, a bomb is disabled. If you fail, you pay for it with your life. It’s binary. That doesn’t imply any level of personal failure – some of these devices are truly infernal – but it is a fact that if bomb goes off in an uncontrolled fashion the mission was not successfully accomplished. Ergo, “total failure”.
Warriors do not thrive when coddled, and flag officers used to have more substantive issues to concern themselves with.
Honestly, sometimes I despair of us.
The comments section is priceless. The number of those who, at least say they are either EOD or EOD family (hey, it’s the interweb) and their disparaging comments to the ADM are well worth reading. Now I suspect I know who he’s really directing this new sensitivity to. And it’s not DOWN the line, but looking upwards towards the south side of his chain of command looking north.
Really. You couldn’t make this sh*% up. Where do we find such men? Not the EOD, I know where we find them. The Admirals. What Navy, what world, do they come from?
Comjam, I’m curious. How is it you get in first, and your first comment is to point out how “priceless” it is the sheer numbers of people claiming to be “EOD or EOD family?”
Are you reading a different comments section than I am?
Suspect that would be the comments section attached to the original article in the NWF Daily News.
I imagine Comjam is referring to the Facebook page.
I usually do my “due diligence” and at check out the information at the links before commenting. I didn’t do that this time, and I apologize to Comjam if he perceives any insult in my previous comment.
Spy, no harm, no foul! Attached to the original article were comments linked from the newspaper’s FB page. In retrospect, a bit of clarity as to what comments I was referring to would have elicited greater certainty.
Rear Adm. Michael Tillotson must not have too much work on his desk if this is the biggest issue he can address as of today. Funny, I would’ve thought something pressing like the number of EOD guys we have in AFGHN, what equipment they need and how do we ensure mission success for these brave souls sounds slightly more important than this tripe.
Then again, what do I know as a retired E-6 Seabee who measures successful missions based on Gen. Patton’s creedo:
“No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country.” – George S. Patton
As long as we get our troops home & alive in one piece, I am happy and consider that mission success.
Can anyone think of an area other than EOD where the ‘insensitive’ slogan is more appropriate?
SPECWAR, SPECBOAT, IBU, CENTCOM at Tampa. IUWG1,IRT, NCWG1, MESG1. NAVCENT (in the olden days before and shortly after Khobar)
Knives edges we danced upon.
The more I worked with Tillotson the more I understood why we did not make any of them admirals. I would say the same of SPECWAR. Went from Worthington to 4 star SPECWAR admirals practically overnight. Someone will write the book, unless it has already been written detailing the contribution of SPECWAR and it will be a little 40 page pamphlet when all is done and considered. It literally speaks volumes when more of SPECWAR died in helo crashes than died in direct combat on the ground with the enemy.
…and yeah, you had to work with them to fail to appreciate them….a lot.
As with the 1st of the 5th, other people’s mileage may vary.
Belay my last. Comjam, I was befuddled as I thought you were referring to Lex’s comment section. Obviously you were reading a different comments section than I was.
Anyway, I’d say that no one who is a SpecOps Diver could ever be a “total failure.” Neither is he an “initial success.”
How about you, Lex? Were those the two determining factors that decided who did or who did not become a successful naval aviator? Does anyone suppose that to get through Ranger school in the Army one must either be an “initial success” or drop out as a “total failure?”
There’s some work involved.
I’d say any Admiral who is too boneheaded to distinguish between the man who put his effort, sweat, possibly tears, and if he’s unlucky, blood, into becoming the warrior he is, and the mission which in the case of an EOD diver can blow up on him in an instant has disqualified himself from a position of leadership.
And if I read Comjam right, as I now hope I do, he’s already in no position to lead as the place his head is now stuck puts him in a position only to follow behind.
“Rear Adm. Michael Tillotson, commander of the Navy Expeditionary Combat Command, took issue with the slogan and said that “to imply that failure is an option is unacceptable.””
Here, a
REMFRADM demonstrates the falsehood of his own words by his very existence. Failure was clearly an option taken by whoever promoted this prophylactic poster-child to his current exalted overestimation. He’s been watching too damn many Clint Eastwood movies, and not paying close enough attention to them.Failure is always a possible result of any challenging tsak; it only becomes an option when someone doesn’t know what they are doing.
Bumper sticker seen in Charleston on Ford F-150:
“This vehicle operated by a Politically Incorrect, Insensitive Son-of-a-Bitch
Live FREE or DIE”
I remember a time when they courted failure in training. Not to be insensitive to you but to build that buffer in you between failure and giving up. Small failures in a controlled environment to compact the whole against catastrophic reactions to failure when it really mattered. Oh well, I guess current research indicates that such foolishness can wait until under fire when the consequences are total failure. But at least there’ll be no crying in the classroom.
Have sent the link to this to SNO who is an EODCS in Sandy Eggo. It will be interesting to hear his thoughts, and that of his fellow EOD techs. I attended his graduation some years ago at Eglin and it sure didn’t offend me.
Can you believe that the good RADM Tillotson is an EOD guy? Jeez!
Oh yeah, no him from wayback.
What about the t-shirts?
“BOMB SQUAD – if you see me running, try and keep up”
My son’s said “Bomb Technician” but the thrust is pretty much the same.
I guess our motto: “Support SAR, get lost!” would be too insensitive. God, what times we live in. I swear, these bleeding hearts are looking for any reason to get offended. Which makes me think this is a plan to silence the other side.
Yes, it is the time of NO heros..and only victims…
Know many RADMs that ever earned 2 of these:
+ Designated Explosive Ordnance Disposal officer
+ Surface Warfare officer
+ Naval parachutist
RADM Michael P. Tillotson earned all three.
Yet, perhaps the PC agenda to which he salutes most often is slightly different …
http://aquilinefocus.blogspot.com/2012/02/very-sensitive-admiral-has-ordered.html
Just goes to show that just because you make your bones, it doesn’t mean you aren’t an idiot.
Just another FO in the Adm Harvey Class of idiot.
^+1, QM.
+2
Sometimes?
I have to wonder why we had so many bomb diffusing events in Iraq and Afghanistan. To save some buildings that would cost a couple grand to rebuild?
He is decidedly not a REMF.
Sorry, but a REAR Admiral is by definition a REMF.
Maybe he used to be otherwise, but flag rank plus gurgling about people’s ‘sensitivity’ to the display of an unofficial motto, equals REMF by definition. He’s forgotten which is the pointy end of the stick.
+1
I know a Marine sergeant in the sandbox right now who graduated Navy EOD. I’d love to know what he thinks.
Got a response from my Marine friend. He’s okay with the sign removal as it makes no difference to him but might help the families of the friends he’s lost.
YMMV.
At Fort Bliss you can’t say any cusswords in the Jodie calls except “hell” and “damn”. At Fort Polk, they hand out Article 15′s for cussing and fines to civilians for cussing.
“We received a unit/community wide e-mail about this just recently and like most things in today’s Navy that are blown way out of proportion this particular one made me want to vomit. This is just another example of political correctness run amok as well as that old wooden ship “diversity”. This is complete horse shit. Absolutely no EOD Technician in the Navy or any other service believes that the service members who were killed or maimed for life doing the job experienced “total failure” or screwed up in some way. This saying has been around for ages and has always been an “unofficial” motto and no one has ever had a problem with it. It just goes to show how out of “touch” today’s brass are with the ground troops or the people who actually do the job. I guarantee that if a poll was taken across the services, to include our wounded warriors, NO ONE would have an issue with this saying or think that it portrays anyone in the EOD community in a negative light. Complete PC bullshit. Personally I could care one way or the other, but to imply that this sayimg “hurts” people’s feelings is complete crap.”
“A disgruntled EOD Senior Chief with multiple combat tours in Iraq and Afghanistan.”
Just a small note; no offense intended “BigFred” and “Vigilis”, but our good ADM is most certainly a REMF. Known him for years and officers in the Navy EOD community are administrators, not operators.
Many years ago I was in Ordnance field in the Maintenance track; while at the Officer Basic Course a EOD Captain (O-3) gave us a presentation on EOD and asked us if any of us would like to volunteer to transfer into the EOD track (assuming we met all the qualifications). This Captain was missing part of 2 fingers, and flat out told us that this is what happens when bad things happen- which pretty much made me decide that EOD was not what I wanted to do.
I wonder what the Admiral would have to say about that?
We should get Bubblehead Les to ask his EOD-tech nephew what he thinks of this. The kid is an officially-DXed Aspy and finds his laser-like cold-blooded autistic focus and fanatical attention to detail quite helpful when dealing with Other Peoples’ Explosives. I imagine he’d approve of the slogan, as we guys do seem to see things in black and white, no gray. In this case we are correct; you are either blown up, or not.
Isn’t one definition of a hero, “Someone who knows failure & death is a likely result, but goes ahead and does the necessary anyway”?
Sometimes, judging from statements made by very-decorated guys, I think it’s more like, ” I wasn’t thinking about that, just concentrating on the task at hand.”
The PC police hit the Army’s 7th Signal Brigade a few years back. The Brigade’s motto, as inscribed on the Distinctive Unit Insignia, was once “Get The Word To The Man” (the full version was “Get the word to the man in the field”). Now, in the interest of being “gender non-specific”, it is “Voice of Freedom”. Bah.
Anyone who has been around any of the EOD gang knows they live life on the ‘edge’ with the constant knowledge they may go ‘over’ at any point.
I guess Postmodernists do not want to be reminded of the (ultimate) sacrifice EOD personnel make so others may live….
Just so,
Every EOD det asked permission to come ashore after they entered the manse and blow up HESH rounds at UDARI. We always said yes. There were millions of rounds up there that needed a high explosive treatment and every single EOD det was willing able and ready to partake. I have to say the beer appeared to fill their ice chests enroute from the carrier to the beach hotel. If it was magic, I wish I knew the spell.