We remember that, as a young lieutenant, Timothy Dorsey shot down a USAF RF-4C Phantom during a training exercise, an act that was deemed both deliberate and illogical by the mishap board. The event ended his flying career, but did not derail his forward progress in the Navy. His nomination for flag rank rests with the Senate Armed Services Committee.
What we did not know, until now, was the fate of the man he shot down:
Col. Ross, a Milton, Ga., resident, estimates he has spent well over $100,000 on medical bills, paid by depleting his savings. He lives on Air Force retirement benefits and Social Security disability checks.
In one of his dozens of surgeries, doctors three years ago performed an anterior lumbar interbody fusion. Surgeons “removed my guts” during the eight-hour operation to reach his spine, then put them back, he said.
In 2010, a flight surgeon who had begun treating him in 1991 wrote on his behalf to the Department of Veterans Affairs, which was reviewing his disability status.
“I would like to assure you that indeed his current medical problems and level of disability are unquestionably and completely attributable to his combat-related shoot down and the subsequent injuries he received in the following high-speed ejection,” wrote Lt. Col. Scott Phillips. “He can no longer walk more than a few yards without assistance.”
I bear no personal animus towards Captain Dorsey. People make mistakes, sometimes even inexplicable ones. No doubt he has worked hard and long since that fateful day to refashion himself to excellence in another career path.
Still, it’s ironic that the negligent shooter should find himself on the brink of making flag rank, and the shootee should struggle with the VA to defend his disability payments.
No one ever said that life was fair.
“F-Up and Move Up.” Sure worked “back in the day”….GLAD to see some things in the armed forces still work..
Signed: Lilly Tomlin
Forgot to add that in the case of the good Col and his travails w. the VA the corollary: ” Punish the Innocent” is alive and well also..
A retired Army rotorhead I know went to the VA at Philadelphia and was told he would have to pay the full cost of any treatment because he “was an officer, got paid more and could afford it.”
As one wag put it,
“Delay, deny, and wait for ‘em to die.” — the VA Motto
An New Mexico ANG F-100A shot down a B-52B with a AIM-9 in April 1961. That was deemed to be a mechanical malfunction.
I understand that Dorsey got considerable help from his dad, RADM James Dorsey, former skipper of AMERICA. Never really got any punishment.
Of course, 7 years later the AF proved it was no slouch at assessing blame….
w/r, SJS
P.S. Lex – check your mail…
SJS/
I knew the shooter, Sq CO Ltc Randy May as a young 1st Lt C-130 type with the 67th ARRS squadron (whose CO was Herb Kalen, lead helo ac in the Son Tay POW raid who was awarded the Air Force Cross–was a cool dude who walked around w. long hair, wrap-around sunglasses and Hans Probst custom black boots, lol) ) based across the runway from us at RAF Woodbridge circa 1970-71. His room in the BOQ was right across the hall from me. He was trying to transfer to fighters as “You fighter pilots have all the fun.” Guess he got his wish. “Be careful what you wish for” , Randy. LOL
PS: That Randy made it to Ltc as a fighter squadron CO after starting out as a 130 rt-seater show some aggressive upward mobility’career self-promotion, to say the least, lol–whatever else one make make of him…
As for the case at hand — I’ll simply repeat what I stated in another forum:
“This wasn’t an “aw sh*t” moment with a ‘winder that went astray, it was a series of deliberate actions that ended with an F-4 in flames and two damn lucky aircrew who got wet vice being killed. To me, it spoke volumes about a mindset, judgement and ability to function in a high tempo/pressure environment where lives are at stake.
Look, I’m all for redemption and second chances – but this case crossed the line; in my book he should have gone home as an O-3.”
w/r, SJS
The Col seems to be carrying his load on his own inspite of the challenges. Still, it leaves one wishing there was some way to extend the right hand of fellowship across the miles.
No. He should have gone to the brig for attempted murder been reduced to the lowest paygrade and kicked the hell all the way out of the navy.
This is a disgrace and I really hope that the Senate will refuse to promote him. I don’t expect it but it would be easier to fall asleep at night knowing that we don’t have so many losers like this in the flag ranks.
That he reinvented himself is commendable. However, selection for flag rank is incomprehensible. Truly, this shows Navy has lost touch with core competencies and core values.
Accountability has some uneven application these days…
Grandpa “understatement” Bluewater. Are you sure you’re not British?
Only by extraction…ignoring the Irish, German, Norman and Alsation ancestors.
Is it normal to carry real ordnance in training exercises of this kind? If not, that doesn’t get Dorsey off the hook, but it does raise some issues about decisions made at higher levels.
Also, what is the correct action for a pilot or weapons officer to take when directed to “fire” during a training exercise??…assume it’s something other than hit the missile-launch switch??
Come to think of it, isn’t it unusual for a fighter pilot to be micromanaged to the extent of being told when to fire his weapons?
Any enlightenment appreciated….
I would never pretend to comprehend the inner-workings of our military, particularly among this august group. That said, when I read this:
“I’ve never heard from him,” Col. Ross said. “He didn’t come over and apologize on the boat or anything.”
That tells me all I need to know about Dorsey. In it for himself and everyone around him be-damned while he vaulted up the ladder (likely, as referenced above, based on daddy’s position in the same branch) while his victim still struggles to get the medical treatment and coverage that should be due him without question.
Bingo Kris — you nailed it (him) on the head.
w/r, SJS
Why was his aircraft loaded with a “live” missile?
Is that standard procedure on a training event?
At that time, yes – it wasn’t uncommon at all to get a Tom up on CAP with a 2-2-2 load out and none of them blue (captive carry) missiles.
w/r, SJS
So this idiot was the reason mixing live ordnance with a bit of ULT became so difficult? I guess it only takes one.
Here is a link to an article in the Chicago Tribune from 1988.
The RF-4C backseater Randy Sprouse, notes that Dorsey did apologize to him.
Plus: “Two F-14s had left the Saratoga eight minutes earlier with live missiles on their wings-contrary to an agreement with the Air Force that such weapons wouldn`t be used during war gaming.”
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1988-04-18/news/8803090693_1_uss-saratoga-rf-4c-phantom-pilot
That article paints a slightly different picture of the chain of events.
I am all for redemption but promotion to Admiral is a bit much–unless we are arguing a “legacy” from Animal House
I saw guys who always brought them back alive, never scratched an airplane, and could make the most bitched out sailor work overtime with just a friendly suggestion get passed over for 0-4 and 0-5 without a second glance. The guys who had the politics figured out as jg’s went on to 0-6 at least. Flag rank was pretty much determined to be out of the picture when you selected for helos in flight school. I was real lucky, by the time I made 0-4, they had stopped giving lobotomies. Instead they went up through your asshole and got your spine and everything in case you went on to a higher grade!
His active duty career was ended by this incident, that’s whay he went to the reserves where all are aware that it is way easier to get promoted than on active duty. Agree that promoting him to 0-7 would be a travesty. But in the end, he will be just a reserve (i.e. b-team) guy doing reserve stuff on the weekends.
Alert 5:
“…he will be just a reserve (i.e. b-team) guy doing reserve stuff on the weekends.” While I concur that in this particular case, I would not be at all surprised to see a Senate “hold” (which they can and have done before) put on this, oh, until hell freezes over. But as to your statement, would you care to elaborate on that statement? Especially to the families of those “B-teamers” who have died ON ACTIVE DUTY since, oh let’s just pick a date, 11SEP01?
Alert 5,
Were we not just speaking of Stolen Valor? What part of the total mobilization and deployment of the Reserve and National Guard did you just miss? Our Reserve Squadrons have now deployed for their 5th and 6th and 7th time for 7-9 months each time.
For decades a lot of the JTF and TYCOM have maintained the actual deputy commander as a full time mobilized reserve flag officer including JTF-SWA. It’s possible that your direct experience comes from working with the Reserve Intel community. I never have myself. I do remember sitting at a meeting discussing the requirements for a surveillance/C4I system where the active duty rep to the IPT said, ‘perhaps those at the table are not qualified to discuss it further’. The Reserve N6 for this organization was a Deputy PMW commander at SPAWAR in his real job. The FLEET LNO worked as a Program Manager at DEC for 15 years. The Reserve Supply Officer (on mobilization orders/ADSW) designed and sold high end IT and SATCOM C4I in his real job and the lowly LT worked for INTEL where he designed and built/managed the program for new computer chips. We all laughed.
I admit that there are some weak spots in the Reserve structure but a lot of those got hammered out of existence during the late unpleasantness. There was an interesting article a decade ago in the Proceedings of the Naval Institute by Commodore Cvrk and Commodore Robey about changing that structure. I think most of their recommendations were adopted. It pretty much had the consequences I warned about but we’ll see how the new build down of AC force structure works as the budgets are cut and cut again. Manpower is going to take enormous cuts. That was largely what the Reserve and Guard were about.
I don’t have any good words to say about this officers selection to flag rank but I recall dimly that promotion boards would extend back 3 years so a mistake from 20 years ago may not have been addressed or visualized to the board that voted for his promotion. Nameless and others that served on promotion boards will give a more accurate portrait of the promotion board process. My experience for the last 10 years was that Promotion boards were chicken**** and largely/universally let the Command Screening Boards do their jobs for them.
Comjam/Curtis, sounds like you guys have spent some time on active duty, so you know the Navy reserve does things differently than active duty and Big Navy has always considered The Navy reserve the B Team, even as they serve valiantly. This is a case of don’t hate the player, hate the game. Navy Reservists have done us proud in the GWOT, no argument. Capt Dorsey has merely played the hand he was dealt. You’ve seen it, your active duty buds who can’t make O-4 go on to make O-6 as reservists. The Navy reserve has a wide margin of error for career sins, Capt Dorsey is an excellent example. I’m sure his Dad told him that his active duty career was over and if he wanted to continue to be affiliated with the Navy, the reserve is the only way to go. And so the reserves took him (don’t understand that) and promoted him to 0-4/5/6 (don’t get that either), and now on the cusp of O-7 suddenly people have a problem. Aside from it being a massive insult to every Flag officer before him, where’s the harm? He’ll get that star, because nobody in big Navy or the reserves has the nads to stop it.
A5:
Maybe that was how things were “back in the day,” but by the late 80′s through the most recent, and second set, of severe draw downs in the Reserves, my observation is that, unlike the USAF and Army Reserves, given the fact that most officers came into the system as LT’s, the selection rate for CDR, CAPT and above severely lagged that of the active duty. I remember seeing a Reserve 13XX CAPT selection Board results and seeing (foggy exact numbers, here) something like 12% for Aviators and <7% for NFO's, way lower than their Regular Navy running mates.
I can't speak for the Restricted Line people, but I do recall talking to a few who were activated for OIF, etc. and they said they were in pretty good shape due to the simple paucity of their actual numbers versus DON listed requirements.
I concur that the Regular Navy has played "FU" games with their Reserve component for many generations, unlike the integration of Reserve and Guard into the overall scheme of things by the Army, Navy, Coast Guard and even the Marines. I recall Big Navy going out of their way to minimize Reserve call-ups on several occasions when the rest of their Service Component equivalents were calling everyone they could. This caused a certain amount of frowning by the Bean-Counters, to be sure. ("If you're not needing to call up any Reserves, maybe your AD component is too large".) Of course, in the last few years, Big Navy's been able to pretty much reduce the Reserve Force to a simple bull-pen/temp agency and with certain specific exceptions (NCW, NSW, NCB's, airlift,etc.) they're now a fairly hollow force compared to when they were about 120,000 or so. But who needs citizen-sailors, right?
BTW, Congress has final say on all Flag promotions. We'll have to see if this gains any traction.
COMJAM,
I was writing a reply last night and decided that I’m just too damned argumentative. People have invited my attention to this character flaw.
WRT to your comment about should have called them up, I was a serving AC officer on an NRF MSO during Ernest Will and could not for the life of me figure out why our NRF MSO crews were not mobilized. Found out why while serving at SURFPAC RLO office many years later. CNSRF advocated very strongly for it but was turned down flat by OP095 according to the correspondence still in the files.
Spent 19 of my last years with the navy working very largely in IUW/NCW (100%) Reserve Component with a bit on the side in NSW. I never spent any time at all in the system that the folks in NOLA designed and maintained. We were a community that found its way into the 5th FLEET/NAVCENT IPL year after year.
It will prove interesting how we handle the force shaping with the end of the current wars. Will RIVGRU and the RIVRONs go to the Reserve or just go away or will they once again be dumped into the USMC. How many of the AC MESRONs will be retained and how many/if any will be converted to RC.
I won’t debate with Alert 5, not because I find his argument without merit but just because I don’t have the background or experience to counter any argument raised about the vast bulk of the RC. I would not have lasted a year in a typical of the day “SPAWARSYSCOM” RC Det or any other Ech V/VI dets that hung out in various reserve centers.
Curtis,
Having been a “plank owner” post-ODS (and post-squadron tours) in the establishment of the CG/Navy HDCU/NCW mis-mosh, I think we may have some mutual shipmates.
I’m sending some observations to another source, but I sometimes suspect the process goes like this: Active Duty: “We don’t want to do or pay for this; here, Reserves, have it, and pay for it out of whatever we think you should have!” Reserves: “Sure, we can do that, we have actual adults around here!” Active Duty: “Since we don’t want to do this any more, we’re not going to let you have the money or the equipment to do it, either.” Reserves: “WTF, that’s not what you said before!?!” Active Duty: “Huh, what, did somebody say something? Must be an echo in here. Now put on your happy face and get with the program, or we’ll cut you even more!” Reserves: “In order to serve our Active Duty masters better, a bunch of you are fired. Aren’t things great?”
LOL, Comjam, you’ve encapsulated the active/reserve divide in a nutshell! Of course this is all filed (unfortunately, because it’s truly no laughing matter) under the tab: “Are we having fun yet?”
Comjam,
I’m sure we know a lot of the same people. I was with M107, M103, M104, CNIUWG1, NCWG1, MESG1 and was our “man in Bahrain” all of 1996. I was on the first overseas deployment of the HDCU when it went to Portugal where I was the spy for Harness.
In the last staff job, 3 years active, we routinely briefed CFFC (4 star) in our conference room and he’d choke when we replied to his question about our world wide deployments and ask, “who’s paying for this?” and we’d tell him he was. Same thing briefing each new C3F and NECC. They couldn’t believe what we were doing around the world. Universally they thought NAVCENT or CENTCOM or CINPACFLT ought to get the bill. They would ask, “how long has this been going on?” I would have to say that we’d been doing it since 1994 based on RFF from NAVCENT/C5F. That was why/how we stayed in the IPL and Murtha continued to fund our R&D and got us that pittance of OMN. We were “useful”.
It was fun times. NOLA would allow that we could have anything that was in the signed TOA and CASEMIS which we all used to head to the local DRMO and liberate the venerable deuce and halfs, 5 tons, generators, blazers, pick up trucks, HMMWVs and anything else we needed. All free. When I was at CNIUWG1 I reached a bit and decided that our weapons were in the TOA so I called up Crane and asked what I needed to get my TOA of weapons shipped to me and it was as simple as sending a single message request CC our ISIC. Beautiful day. The LCDR I greased it with at NOLA sent a routine message response with one word. “Concur”. Weapons showed up a week later. I don’t think the upper level staff at NOLA ever knew.
Had fun briefing the second AC commodore at NCWG1 as we geared up for OIF deployment. He was informed by the CHOP that in order to deploy the NCWRONS he’d need serious funding to complete their TOA and the boss looked at him and said, “what happened to their stuff?” Had to tell him that they’d never actually been issued “stuff.”
If you like, Lex knows me and can put us in touch if he has the time and inclination.
Curtiss,
I do remember the budget shenanigans and shell games being played. I don’t know about you, but the PAC units got most of our operating “stuff” through the CG budget lines, as they were actually A) Timely and B) Supportive of the mission.
We do indeed “know” each other; I was out of CG Island at Alameda and put together the second OUTCONUS deployment to Manama in SEP96; I was in and out of C5F a bunch summer-fall ’96 before heading to my penalty tour at Dam Neck. I was among the last of the airdales and sub-bubs they let in on the program before the ‘shoes got all outraged we were having way too much fun running around in cammies, with guns and stuff.
This goes to the issue of the Reserve funding lines: Our Commodore spent a lot of time swinging through every AOR we were responsible for briefing senior Navy, CG and even host national resources on the program. Inevitably, due to dueling rice bowls, silly-a$$ ego games and vicious competition for Flag selection by those who actually thought that mattered (vice things like, say, mission accomplishment) the guys from Coronado, You Know Who (the man with no vowels) would go through the same AOR’s and claim we didn’t exist, we had no money and HE was actually in charge. Silly, silly games. While I regret the change in how they screened command selection (11XX only), I hear I didn’t miss much. Plus I drifted back into some of my VQ stuff, so I was ok with that. Lex also has my email, we’ll chat.
Well, there for a bit I was MARDEZPAC. If you know me you can reach me at:
capt.lastname@gmail.com
Honestly. The capt bit is not vanity. Would you believe there was already a curtis.lastname@gmail.com? Yeah, I was surprised too.
One day I’ll learn to be more anonymous on the innertubes.
Do you know Reg from MARDEZLANT?
best regards,
By the way,
I used to swing the hatchet for the man with no vowels. He was forced to call me one night to tell me the “war” was over. I told him that out there there was never any war. I just had to step aside and let certain parties rush to their doom. I was the N361 or acting N36. I was always most helpful setting up visits with VADM Fargo or VADM Redd. We had a very different agenda back then and all moot now.
It probably meant a bit that the N3 was my last AC skipper on MSO’s where the 5 officers of us would meet for meals and whatnot in the tiny wardroom. The first one I worked with was the guy I used to share beers with at the end of the day at the Admiral Kidd Club Bar in 1986-7. History. Nothing like the man with no vowels who knew literally everybody.
Curtiss?
I’m sensing something ugly. Been there. Done that.
Curtis: (silly iPad, I blame you)
Try this: (all lower case) AlphaNovemberIndiaEchoMikeYankeeEchoRomeo aht gmail.com. That should link us up, I hope! Otherwise, I’ll be screwing up naming for a while.
See Curtis, I’m not the only one who is often innocently inadvertently heavy-handed (“Curtiss”) on the keyboard
Mine comes from having learned on an old Underwood manual portable..Comjam can speak for himself.. 
Here are the FY12 selection rates for O6: http://www.public.navy.mil/bupers-npc/boards/reserveofficer/06line/Documents/FY12%20RO6L%20STATS.pdf
Like I tell folks: the Navy Reserve is like the Navy, only different. It ends up being what you make of it. It seems to me, seeing in my community over the last 10 years (Submarine Force Reserve Component – SFRC) that if you want to make flag in the NR, you need to spend a lot of time on boards, do a fair bit of ADT/ADSW, and get your name out there. But those folks were also doing things, finding the places where the reservists could no-shit fill a hole for the active component. In our community, we work on the drill weekends, spend between 15-20 hours a week outside drill weekends planning, perform far above the minimum AT, and get folks out to forward deployed staffs on short notice to support real-world tasking. That is true from the E5 to O6 level. I know that is not true of the whole NR, but that is my perspective. From what I have seen of the Intel community, they do a good bit, too. It seems to me that they have a higher than average MOB rate than other parts of the NR (other than Seabees).
That being said, I still don’t get this…
A letter to my Senator, who also is on the Defense committee.
Dear Senator Cornyn,
My name is [name here] and I am a former naval sailor (Electronic Warfare systems operator, USS Halsey CG-23 and USS Kitty Hawk CV-63).
I am writing concerning the selection of Captain Timothy Dorsey (USN) to the rank of Rear Admiral.
To be frank, such an occurrence would be an absolute travesty of justice. Dorsey should have gone to military prison, and after serving his time, dishonorably discharged. That he was not, is in the past. He has commended himself well in the meantime, but to allow him to become a Flag would be wrong.
Dorsey was involved in the INTENTIONAL shooting down of a friendly aircraft. It was not an accident. It was not a mistake. The military investigation found that his shooting down of an Air Force RF-4C Phantom recon jet was calculated and deliberate.
After his first missile failed to fire, he had time to reassess his actions yet he fired a second missile which destroyed a US aircraft.
Due to his father being an Admiral, Dorsey’s only punishment was a ban from flying. The pilot of the F-4 is now permanently disabled and was forced to medically retire short of receiving his pension due to the injuries sustained in the ejection.
We cannot go back in time an place Dorsey in prison for his actions. But he has already advanced far more than he should have ever been allowed to.
Even if Dorsey’s work has been exemplary since then, He should NEVER be given Flag. To do so would be just one more bit of weakening that the current administration (Obama) is doing to destroy our military.
Depending on just how bad the screwup is… One “Oh Sh*t” SHOULD erase a thousand attaboys.
Research the incident. Look into why he was not punished despite the severe findings that it was deliberate. Look in on Lt. Col Michael Ross, the man who is permanently marred by Dorsey’s actions.
Do the right thing. Deny Dorsey his Flag rank.
Thank you for your time and consideration.
[my name].