The Flight Deck

Comment from FbL
Time: November 3, 2007, 10:35 am

Well, I’ll do the basic work so we don’t give Snake too much time to snark. Damsel helping damsel, okay?

1. Not necessarily. Someone with a college degree can join the military at an enlisted level if they choose. These days, most who enlisted right out of high school end up getting a college degree of some sort before finishing their first term of enlistment. If they continue to climb the enlisted ranks, they’ll likely end up with a Bachelor’s degree, at least. In fact, these days there is the expectation that a higher-level enlisted WILL have a college degree. But a 4-year college degree is REQUIRED before becoming an officer.

2. An NCO is a enlisted person who has risen to a certain minimum rank. In the Army and Marine Corps, it goes from Sgt on up to the highest enlisted rank, though I have heard Corporals referred to as NCOs; I believe the term applies if they are put in positions of responsibility such as squad leadership… Any Marines who can clarify that for us?

As to the Navy enlisted ranks… it’s a maze of insanity. All I know is that the Chiefs are in charge. And then we get to Warrant Officers (who exist in the Army, too)…total confusion.

3. Your source for all the U.S. Military rank/insignia information you’d every want to know: http://usmilitary.about.com/od/theservices/a/rankchart.htm

4. Related to naval aviation (pilots traditional wear/wore brown shoes)
5. SWO
6. Surface Warfare Officer–not flying or sinking. Often piloting a desk.
<p>Okay, gentlemen… where did I screw up?</p>

Comment from FbL
Time: November 3, 2007, 10:59 am

This might help, too: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_unit#Units.2C_Formations_.26_Commands

(Scroll down to “Hierarchy of…” Includes army, navy, and AF)

Comment from Michelle
Time: November 3, 2007, 12:10 pm

Thanks FbL. That was helpful.
So… is an admiral what they refer to as a “flag officer”?

Comment from FbL
Time: November 3, 2007, 1:54 pm

Yes. Same for Generals in the other services.

Comment from Bruce Jones
Time: November 3, 2007, 6:14 pm

Michelle,

There is a third way to become an officer: a battlefield commission. I’m not sure whether such commissions are permanent, since they arise due to extreme circumstances.

As a side note, you may have heard the term “Mustang” from time to time. This refers to an officer that enlisted before being commissioned. Jeopardy, for example, is a Mustang.

Comment from Mike
Time: November 3, 2007, 7:31 pm

Generally speaking (although there are some differences and variations to this, especially with the Marines) there are three main ways to become an officer. The first is through pursuing a degree and a commission at one of the Academies. The second is through pursuing a degree and a commission through an ROTC program at a civilian university. The third is through some sort of Officer Training/Candidate School, either as a prior enlisted with a four year degree (a Mustang, as Bruce said) or a civilian off the street with a four year degree. There’s also battlefield commission, although these are exceptionally rare in today’s military environment.

Comment from Glenn M. Cassel, AMH1(AW), USN, RETIRED
Time: November 3, 2007, 8:17 pm

Brother-in-Law was an LDO Lt.(jg). Me just a really overtime in grade First Class. Many times a Leading Petty Officer and on occasion filling a Chief Petty Officer Billet.
More Confusion? You bet!!!!

Comment from HomefrontSix
Time: November 3, 2007, 11:29 pm

MacGyver graduated college before enlisting. He could have gone to Officer Candidate School and become an officer but chose not to (for a variety of reasons that we won’t go into here). He could still go to OCS but enjoys being a Warrant Officer instead.

For the Army, the ranks (from lowest to highest) are:
(Enlisted): Private, Private First Class, Corporal/Specialist, Sergeant, Staff Sergeant, Sergeant First Class, Master Sergeant, First Sergeant, Sergeant Major, Command Sergeant Major, and Sergeant Major of the Army.

(Warrant Officer): Warrant Officer (WO1), Chief Warrant Officers 2-5 (CW2 – CW5).

(RLO – Real Live Officer): Second Lieutenant, First Lieutenant, Captain, Major, Lieutenant Colonel, Colonel, Brigadier General, Major General, Lieutenant General, General, General of the Army.

I can’t help you with any other branch of service – my brain is full! Everyone else seems to have explained the concept of NCO better than I could have.

Comment from Snake Eater
Time: November 4, 2007, 7:47 am

FbL, You did just fine and the links you provided should clear up any remaining questions that Michelle might have… a noble deed… indeed… and as your reward it is my pleasure to proudly bestow upon you an internet pat on the head for your efforts on Michelle’s behalf . Best

PS, Query…You style yourself a Fuzzy Bear Lioness…sadly reject out of hand the honorific Lex Babe and now in this comment you refer to yourself as a “damsel”…a damsel?… a/k/a… a dame? as in broad/babe… an explaination is clearly in order.

Comment from FbL
Time: November 4, 2007, 8:41 am

You may recall our discussion about women and logic…

I’m not required to explain, but being a “noble” [your word] soul, I shall deign to answer your impudence with patience.

The first question is, what is a Lex Babe? Near as I can tell some people here seem to think a Lex Babe has the following qualities by definition:

1. Female
2. Ignorant of all things military and aviation
3. Swoons at the aviators and other uniformed personnel who pass through Neptunus Lex, particularly Lex.
4. Finds beefcake the highlight of her day

Being as #1 is the only one that applies, I don’t see how I fit. As to the other women who may have allowed themselves to be erroneously classified as Lex Babes, they have my sympathies and I issue them a challenge:

Lex Babes, Revolt!

*heads for the hills to plan the insurgency*

Comment from badbob
Time: November 4, 2007, 10:03 am

Cmon L.B. Michelle-

Use da internet!

Nasal Radiator slang:
http://www.tailhook.org/AVSLANG.htm

Or you can start at “F” for Fighter Attack Guy (Lex)

nyuk-nyuk/b2

Comment from Michelle
Time: November 4, 2007, 11:08 am

Oh brother, now isn’t this a Charlie Foxtrot!
Okay, in (almost) chronological order…

Glenn, you know I was actually following all that until I hit your answer. But at this point, I’ll bow out of asking about anything else I don’t quite get!

Snake, agreef, FbL did a fine job. Which explains why, at least according to her definition, she ain’t no Lex Babe!
Now if … if we accept Fbl’s def of a Lex Babe, then obviously (and ipso facto) any female who hangs out at Chez Lex for long, cannot remain a Lex Babe. For the simple fact that (2) will no longer apply.

So, if I was to admit to ever having been a ‘Lex Babe’ [hey, beefcake ain't the highlight of my day... just a nice piece of it. And I ain't never swooned at all those other aviators/uniformed personnel - I do have certain standards after all],; then even when this post was first written, I weren’t one no more. As evidenced by the fact that I was already familiar with a lot of that ‘aviator slang’. Which, BTW, Sierra Hotel, B2, great site! Thanks a lot. My favourites… Hinge Head and R2D2!

One question though, what’s with the puke references? No, not that puke. But in Clancy’s books, its CIA puke, Air Force puke, White House puke, etc. It seems to encompass everyone except POTUS.

Oh yeah, one more thing I learned.
I had no idea that Lex was a FAG Fighter attack guy…

*Okay, now I’m outta here.
Will meet you in the hills to discuss the insurgency, FbL.
Do you those hills are far enough away for safety?*

Comment from lex
Time: November 4, 2007, 1:39 pm

I tell, sometimes it just breaks my heart to see what you lot have done with the guest house. Then I think that it might have been done in the main building and I think, Yep. That’s about right.

Comment from MissBirdlegs in AL
Time: November 4, 2007, 1:49 pm

Lex, be grateful for those small blessings!

Comment from Michelle
Time: November 4, 2007, 2:16 pm

Ah, but Lex. We do appreciate you for it.
The guest house, I mean.
So does this mean we should all promise to smarten up and fly right?

*I think I’m doing good that he hasn’t whacked me over the head or ordered me over the side … yet!*

Comment from HomefrontSix
Time: November 4, 2007, 5:06 pm

1. Female
2. Ignorant of all things military and aviation
3. Swoons at the aviators and other uniformed personnel who pass through Neptunus Lex, particularly Lex.
4. Finds beefcake the highlight of her day

1. affirmative
2. negative. I have just enough knowledge to be dangerous.
3. hmm…this is a toughie. Lex is a good looking guy but I can’t say I “swoon” when he passes through. Though I do have a preference for aviators. Heck, I married one (ok, he wasn’t one when I married him but still…)
4. “highlight of my day”? Now but it sure makes things a lot more fun

I don’t mind the moniker “babe”. Words only have power if you give it to them. I’ll take the “babe” moniker and make it my own. No revolution necessary. The nice thing about this place is that we seem to be able to define ourselves here, regardless of labels and monikers. For that, I am grateful.

Ok, I’ll step down off my soapbox and leave you to your regularly scheduled activities.

Comment from Maggie
Time: November 4, 2007, 5:33 pm

I am late to this party, but if I may……

They are not “ranks” in the Navy, they are “rates”.

Black shoe = real man = SWO = the very best the Navy has to offer with Mustang being creme de la creme.

Swooning over Naval Aviators is really just a waste of time, they are far to busy admiring themselves to notice (insert James Brown “Yeow! Kiss m’self!”).

My understanding of “puke” is that it refers to REMFs.

Flags are RADM (O-7) and above.

FbL is correct that Chiefs run the deal. After all, only Senior Chiefs, Master Chiefs and Admirals wear stars.

Comment from P-3W
Time: November 4, 2007, 6:39 pm

1. Female
2. Ignorant of all things military and aviation
3. Swoons at the aviators and other uniformed personnel who pass through Neptunus Lex, particularly Lex
4. Finds beefcake the highlight of her day

1. Why yes, I am.
2. Not by a long shot, but most of my information is sadly out of date — well, maybe not sadly … Husband’s been retired 17 years, so that part is good. Plus I’m a mom-in-law to a sergeant in the Army. Cross-service confusion abounds. (I still call it “the Base” and not “the Post”…)
3. Swoons? Not for anyone but my husband, thankyouverymuch. And he is an aviator, so my yes, he qualifies for swoon-worthiness to me. Plus he’s a Mustang — the Navy sent him to school to get a degree and become a pilot. And it was all active duty time. So he worked his way up to officer the long way.
4. Beefcake? Well, I must say I like eye-candy as much as the next gal, but not my main purpose in visiting here. But I must admit the highlight of my day is our host’s site.

Lex has a unique take on happenings military, political, social, and snark-worthy. Moreover, he uses great wit and an attractive turn of phrase that hooks and keeps me online checking for updates way too much of the time.

By-the-by … I thought he was supposed to be Lex Lite now? He sure seems to be keeping the output pretty high. I like it, but it’s going to take me all day (or two) to catch up. I rarely even turn my computer on over the weekends anymore, so I was surprised at how far behind I am.

Oh well. Keeps me out of mischief.

Comment from JAS
Time: November 4, 2007, 7:45 pm

1. Female
2. Ignorant of all things military and aviation
3. Swoons at the aviators and other uniformed personnel who pass through Neptunus Lex, particularly Lex
4. Finds beefcake the highlight of her day

1. That would be an affirmative.
2. Nope, but only knowledgeable enough to know just how much I don’t know.
3. I don’t think I’ve ever “swooned,” so I suppose this means I’m not lacing up my whalebone corsets tight enough?
4. Beefcake is way down on the list, far below the pure joy of discovering a man who puts down the toilet seat when he’s done.

Comment from Michelle
Time: November 4, 2007, 7:48 pm

An eclectic group we be.
Defies categorization, I would say.

And yet still … still Snake tries.

Comment from Snake Eater
Time: November 4, 2007, 10:53 pm

It warms the cockels(whatever the f**k they are…some kind of bivalve maybe ???) of my heart when the Lex Babes( they know who they are …and most importantly aren’t) get all exercised. Mission accomplished. Best

Comment from FbL
Time: November 4, 2007, 11:06 pm

All for you, Dear Snake Eater, all for you…

Comment from Jeopardy
Time: November 5, 2007, 6:01 am

Re: Mustangs: There is some “wiggle room” when it comes to defining Mustangs. Generally speaking, a Mustang is any enlisted who is subsequently commissioned as an officer. As far as I know, there is no Nay reg that defines “mustang”. Some feel that only Limited Duty Officers (LDOs) are true mustangs. These are folks with (usually) a minimum of 12 years enlisted service, and are typically Chiefs. They apply for a commission, and are then boarded in much the same way promotion boards operate.

Others feel that any officer with at least one Good Conduct medal qualifies for the title.

Comment from Michelle
Time: November 5, 2007, 8:03 am

Thanks Jeopardy, you just answered one of my questions from above. And thanks (to most of you, anyway) for your help. Me thinks me just about got it. And if not, I can always come back to this thread for the answer/resources.
Michelle [former Lex Babe ... cuz now I know too much!]
(ICWSFTH]

Comment from Jeopardy
Time: November 5, 2007, 8:35 am

Re: Commissioning programs
In addition to the Military Academies (to include places like VMI and the Citadel), OCS, ROTC, LDO programs, and battlefield commissions, most services offer a direct commission program. The civilian applicant applies for a commission and the application is sent to a selection board. If the candidate is selected, they are commissioned and then sent to a sort of “OCS-lite” school. As you may imagine, these programs are pretty competitive. Prior enlisted can also apply for direct commissions without the time in service restrictions of the LDO program.

Clear as mud yet?

Comment from jpr
Time: November 5, 2007, 4:08 pm

More info on USN Limited Duty Officers– it’s open to E6 through E9 sailors with 8-16 years of service and who are Chief Petty Officer Selection Board eligible. A bachelors degree is helpful but not necessarily required.

Same goes for Reserve side as well (someone correct me if I’m wrong)

My $.02

Comment from doorkeeper
Time: November 5, 2007, 5:00 pm

Well–not a LexBabe according to that definition……ah, well.

Here’s a tip on ranks, dear M! And a little story…..
When shortening “Lt. Col.”, NEVER say Lieutenant, always use Colonel. ALWAYS.

When we had that brouhaha two years ago about getting our boy into a special school far away (for those who don’t know, our only son is profoundly autistic, and has intractible epilepsy–and the locals just ain’t got it. Sadly, neither has the “special school.”) we had to have a BIG meeting with all the local agencies…and the county (true pukes, and worthless in all) was giving us crap……less said, the better, but they wanted CUSTODY for MONEY. Sigh. Called the JAG office, got a GREAT Lt. Col. on our side, who kept the MSG up to date at all times (being that the phones only worked one way, and *I* couldn’t call him!)
Conference call–our JAG, and two county lawyers (they brought one for me, isn’t that SWEET??!! ICSFTH)
And all the others to watch, including the way-overpaid megalomanical b’crat who runs the county…..and my Dad, the former Army/Air Force/Army Nat’l Guard guy.
The b’crat keeps calling the Lt. Col., “Lieutenant”. And finally, the dear boy drawls, “It’s all right, Sam, call me Bob–we all know there’s too many syllables in Lt. Col!!” Dad and I in the corner gagging, gasping, trying to remember what Emily Post would do…………

That memory is right up there with how he wiped the floor with the county lawyers, in such gentlemanly fashion that they didn’t even quite realize it all for hours, perhaps days–after they’d practically stated aloud (no shit, they SAID these things) that “Army lawyers” “just handle custody” and “trailer issues.”
Still giggling………
d

Comment from doorkeeper
Time: November 5, 2007, 5:03 pm

Oh, and M? The MSG (Master Sgt. is an E8, if that helps, second highest enlisted rank in Army) was pushed toward an occifer’s job repeatedly…..because he came into the Guard with a degree already, and his ASVAB (?) scores were high.
He turned them down until they finally quit asking……funny, he claims he’s not up to leading……giving orders….but he sure does ’round here!
Less than a month until D-day…….sigh.
d

Comment from Unkawill
Time: November 6, 2007, 11:00 pm

My definition of a “Lex Babe” is any one of the sweet, snarky, funny, bright, patriotic, compassionate Ladies, that contribute to the discussion at both sites.

Comment from Snake Eater
Time: November 7, 2007, 2:47 am

Unkawill, Correct you are…and most of the Lex Babes (they know who they are) secretly agree…

keep your head down young grass-hopper. Best

Comment from Michelle
Time: November 7, 2007, 5:15 am

I read the first few words of your comment, Unkawill, and thought “Oh, oh … what’s he going to say?!”

Good call. Obviously the sign of a true Lex Lug. And ditto to what Snake said. We require all Lugs to return safely to home base.

Comment from P-3W
Time: November 7, 2007, 9:57 am

Yes, Unkawill, you must come home in one piece, as well as safe and sound.

It’s required, don’cha know?